[Injustice]

Originally Posted by Jump

Lasers and mouths are the same thing to me. And that's where I stand whether you like it or not.

Good one Jump.

As far as safe zones go, I'm in the same boat as Al and some of the others. A lot has been said about how we don't want Jumpgate Evolution to turn into some warped version of WoW in space, but I actually happen to like how "safe" zones were implemented on PvP servers in WoW. So it's all a matter of perspective.

[biteme]

I really think the issues raise over the last few days are mostly irrelavent. The biggest reason most of us don't play Jumpgate anymore or rarely is the lack of new content. As long as ND keeps the heart of the game a space sim where ships are "flown" and not "giuded" by the players, gives us a nice big sandbox with tons of new content were gona play it. We all had to deal with asshats with there dickamatronics and we will again.

I also assume that ND will have the resources this time around to police the player base and cancel griefers and asshats accounts.

[Tim]

I certainly agree with 'ol bite, content is vital. As is GM oversight. Gaming communities don't police themselves, gaming communities need policing.

Having said that, Lasers aren't the same as mouths. /ignore never worked on insights or thorns, but it works like a champ against some puss brain spouting off over comms.

We already have a method to control mouths. Safe zones create a method to control guns.

[Jump]

Not freaking out when your ship gets downed is the same thing as ignore. Playing a single player game is also the same thing as ignore. If you're going to play in a multi player game then you need to accept possible interaction. I don't remember seeing anyone get constantly downed in Jumpgate except when their mouth was the cause.

[Smaggler]

However this is implemented for those arguing "your gameplay forced on me" BS I'll point to WoW. Where the PvP servers are wildly more popular than the carebear style gameplay. Even though its a joke of an example for PvP it clearly shows that people prefer the interaction as to the Singleplayer leave me alone aspect being touted as the only way to play.

Secondly, a carebear style gameplay is "forced" on PvPers just as much as a PvPer style gameplay can be "forced" on carebear styles. If I'm playing a game where I cannot harm you, you are just as much forcing your gameplay style on me as I would be if I could. These arguments cancel each other and if I never see it again we'll all be better people.

Thirdly, one of the biggest breakages of Jumpgate Classic was the introduction of "reg space" connecting all the factions space with no neutral territory. So if you wanted to fly around the galaxy in reg space you could go back forth between factions without ever having to sweat crossing 'neutral' sectors. Solutions were offered to this that favored both sides but apparently have gone largely ignored, the first was a slow route that was safe and fast route that was not. This was widely the most accepted solution proffered at the time but seems to have been forgotten.

Now, all of this said without knowing exactly how ND plans on doing it. So until we have some more solid details I don't think we need to run screaming for the hills that the sky is falling. We've made our voice on the issue known we've let them know what is unpopular with the hardcore fan base and now we need to give them ideas for alternatives. Not doing so isn't adding anything productive to these conversations.

-Smaggler

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Jump

Not freaking out when your ship gets downed is the same thing as ignore.

We may have a different idea about the /ignore feature. I'm thinking of it being used by PilotA to block comms from PilotB. So maybe my ship never gets downed, maybe it gets downed 100 times. Either way, I can ignore PilotB(utthead) and thus remove his comm transmissions from my screen.

Originally Posted by Jump

Playing a single player game is also the same thing as ignore.

I'm not sure where you are coming from here.. PilotA could ignore PilotB and still communicate normally with Pilots C through Z. Ignoring a butthead doesn't make a single player game, it just means you don't have to deal with PilotB's mouth anymore.

Originally Posted by Jump

If you're going to play in a multi player game then you need to accept possible interaction.

Agreed. But the nature of that interaction will determine whether the game is enjoyable or not. If there were a medal or exp gain from receiving X number of insulting comms, then it would be a different story. But since there is no gain from OOC or inappropriate insults, then why have such offensive behavior in the game?

Some pilots like it, some don't. So give pilots the option to disable the abusive comms, and shazam. Problem avoided, happiness continues.

[king0815]

The discussion on JSR-forum about safe-zones, station stripping, POS and so on tends to be ideolical. Nobody knows, even the game-designers do not know, how Jumpgate Evolution will develop once it has been launched.
I suggest to implement all possible features into the code and give the GMs the possibility to activate or deactivate features if the balance makes it necessary. If noobkilling has the upper hand, GMS should be able to activate safe-zones without patching or waiting for a patch for month. And if safe-zones lead into stripping or any other abuse, allow civkilliing or disable safe-zones.

Furthermore, i agree with Als theory concerning noobs. QSSP has been allways open for noobs in the past and we made some experiences as written in his post.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Smaggler

Now, all of this said without knowing exactly how ND plans on doing it. So until we have some more solid details I don't think we need to run screaming for the hills that the sky is falling. We've made our voice on the issue known we've let them know what is unpopular with the hardcore fan base and now we need to give them ideas for alternatives. Not doing so isn't adding anything productive to these conversations.

This thread is a debate about a suggested alternative: Safe Zones. We are, as a community, deciding if we think safe zones are a good alternative/addition to the existing Jumpgate experience.

This conversation is as productive as the contributors decide to make it.

[Jump]

Originally Posted by Smaggler

Now, all of this said without knowing exactly how ND plans on doing it. So until we have some more solid details I don't think we need to run screaming for the hills that the sky is falling. We've made our voice on the issue known we've let them know what is unpopular with the hardcore fan base and now we need to give them ideas for alternatives. Not doing so isn't adding anything productive to these conversations.

-Smaggler

I love your post until this point.

This is a discussion forum. We have been giving ideas for months now. Some of us do not like what the devs has said point blank on how the new game is going to be. There is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with blowing off steam as long as people are civil. And 99.999% of the members here have been civil while being vocal.

Yes we can suggest more ideas, and people are. This thread was started as one. But for those that don't like what we have already been told then voicing that concern is each individuals duty. Scorch is a big boy and he knows that what they give out will displease people. Some people are happy with the recent news and some people are unhappy. That's ok.

What's not ok is all the happy people preaching to the unhappy ones. If they had came out and said all space would be as unreg, those current preachers would be letting us know how pissed they are. Not saying that's you Smaggler, just making a point.

If you people think all those people out there that have never played Jumpgate all want safe zones then I am sure you will be surprised. I've seen a lot on a lot of game forums and this community is angels compared to most.

The time to let them know what you want is now. Once the game goes beta or gets released it will be headed in a specific direction and major change will be unlikely.

"Once the avalanche has begun, it's too late for the pebbles to vote"
-- Kosh Naranek

[Liet]

Originally Posted by dailatron

Then put them on ignore. Seriously, using someone mouthing off as a reason not to have safe zones is ridiculous.

Youd rather have ass hats being able to civ rip left, right and center than have ass hats being able to be mouthy ?.

Yep, I do. If someone calls me a stinking Oct pig, I'm going to rip their face open. The reason it doesn't happen is because people know that I can and will do exactly that.

Vocal or economic support of my enemies means you're my enemy. The game is more interesting when you've got to watch what you say, instead of mouthing off about whatever squad or faction you like. Politics.

[Istanbul]

Originally Posted by Smaggler

Secondly, a carebear style gameplay is "forced" on PvPers just as much as a PvPer style gameplay can be "forced" on carebear styles. If I'm playing a game where I cannot harm you, you are just as much forcing your gameplay style on me as I would be if I could. These arguments cancel each other and if I never see it again we'll all be better people.

These 'arguments' do not cancel each other out. Someone who would prefer to not participate in PvP combat does not force PvPers to not be able to participate in PvP combat. If a person is flying with his squad doing econ work or fighting the conflux, and there are PvPers wanting to fight, then the only reason PvPers would need to go after the PvEers would be a) the squad did something stupid and pissed off the PvPer, or b) there aren't any other PvPers online, which, in Jumpgate Evolution should not be an issue. Therefore, PvEers who keep their nose clean aren't forcing people to not be able to PvP.

*edit* Pirates are of course another issue altogether. If they are going to have criminal piracy (as opposed to factional privateering), it needs to be implemented better than it is in Jumpgate Classic, both from the pirate and the victim side of things. I, however, have no ideas on that matter, so carry on.

Now, I'm the last (well, maybe second to last) person on earth to say that civs should be invulnerable, because that'd be pretty cheesy imo. So, if that's implemented on PvE server I'll definitely be on PvP. Otherwise, I'd probably be giving them both a run and seeing which is the most fun for me. Given my predilection for switching between games on a pretty continual basis, I'd probably end up being back and forth and all around! (but not THAT way! Geez people!)