[Jonboy]

He means 'tag and bag' is lame.

[vorlon31]

In his opinion of course. As far as Jumpgate Classic is concerned, its what the code does so lameness isn't an issue, there simply is no alternative. Sure some threat assessment and spawn division based on pilot attackers would of been neat but it wasn't coded that way.

It would be easy enough for even Jumpgate Classic's AI to overwhelm any and all who opposed them and probably more so with Jumpgate Evolution's I'm sure. But as they found pre the flux nerf, people simply didn't respond well to the bigger pp'd flux and the entire high end flux mechanic was largely avoided by the player base - defeating the point.

[Jonboy]

'tag and bag' was poor. all you need is a fast ship and a ship with a ton of burst damage. You can also abuse lag to put in as much damage as possible before the server switches the flux to you. You can completely control the encounter by jumping in and out of the sector.

The only way to counter this is to have flux that are faster than the fastest TRI ship.

We need a wider variety of behaviour for the AI. You should be thinking of things you would like to see them DO.

For example:
Escorting another AI.
Stop firing/engines to regen shields quickly.
Have some which switch targets and some which don't.
Healer AI.
AI that switch between circle and joust pseudo randomly.

[SingleShot]

I am not bashing anyone for using tag and bag tactics. It's what the game gives you, just like so many other things.

It was just pretty dumb, though, and showed how weak Flux AI was. (edit: All AI in Jumpgate, since everything ran on the same stuff)


Group activities are fun, and it would be nice to see them encouraged in Jumpgate Evolution for at least some AI combat, unlike in Jumpgate Classic. Because there isn't a whole lot of use for a wing in traditional Jumpgate Classic. Besides tag and bag, the comparatively new infests, or sent attacks (which a: arn't AI, and b: are not really what fluxers are going to be good at), the only reason to wing up with someone was to help someone powerlevel faster. But that would again mostly fall under "tag and bag".

I did like the upper level flux before the nerf. But it was weird to have challenging AI, I'll give you that. A C18 or laser/feather shrimp thingy would really hurt if you got even a little lazy. And heaven help you if you were flying something with novas and screwed up...

[dahalb]

I realise that pic looks like a squid all dolled up and my money says it is, but ND have so far said that the conflux may or may not be included. So what i see as a squid may end up being one of the ships in the octavian fleet

As for the ideas, Tritian and WB have outdone themselves IMO. I loved it all.

[Ambrosius]

I am not bashing anyone for using tag and bag tactics. It's what the game gives you, just like so many other things.

Unfortunately two of the more popular Jumpgate Classic "group activities" -- MatCon farming and tag-and-bag fluxing -- were just lame exploits of a flawed system.

[vorlon31]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

Unfortunately two of the more popular Jumpgate Classic "group activities" -- MatCon farming and tag-and-bag fluxing -- were just lame exploits of a flawed system.

Ambro what exactly is your issue with Jumpgate? Would you honestly rather people just didn't play Jumpgate any more? Would you really prefer that Jumpgate had dropped off the radar years ago?

You often come across like a youngster that doesn't want anyone else to share his toys, because when people DO want to play with them you vocally point out the flaws and say.. 'yeah... that ones bust anyway..."

Of course we would all of liked Jumpgate Classic's flux to have been more intelligent, unpredictable and dynamically exciting. That its economy had more depth, offered more intrigue and was rich with life. But hey, we can only play the Classic with the tools that its got and guess what, WE still like it, we still play AND we TRY to make something out of what we have before us.

What on earth can be your beef with that?

[netburnr]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

Unfortunately two of the more popular Jumpgate Classic "group activities" -- MatCon farming and tag-and-bag fluxing -- were just lame exploits of a flawed system.

Ahh, such good memories

I remember this one time when I was matt farming in sol space as an OSP member and I accidentally got a temp ban cause a missle went off and all the other tows formed a "shield" around me to keep people from ripping me. Ahh, goooood times.

Back on the topic though....

I never did like the high level flux, they always kicked my ass

I want better group dynamics. I want to be able to go out with a few people and have a good challenging group fight with the flux. Not the way it was where you would just tow around your flux while clearing your wingmates flux, then having them do the same for you.

[Ambrosius]

The best Jumpgate group dynamic remains (IMO) the big-ol' fur ball followed closely by Sent attacks with infestations.

As much as I'd love to include major FM efforts on the list, even they included an "exploit" (brokering) of a design flaw/weakness.

[dahalb]

The "exploit" you speak of was in response to the flawed system where only 50 (Maximum) of anything counted. You can haul 750 but cant get it to count?!? This IMO was just stupid! I think that's why the devs never tried to stop brokering and don't mind that its in there. Its still a group dynamic and it works well enough.

[Lordopic]

With out brokering some of the FM’s of yesteryear would still be running now

[Ambrosius]

Originally Posted by dahalb

The "exploit" you speak of was in response to the flawed system where only 50 (Maximum) of anything counted. You can haul 750 but cant get it to count?!? This IMO was just stupid! I think that's why the devs never tried to stop brokering and don't mind that its in there. Its still a group dynamic and it works well enough.

I tend to agree that the 50 max count was "stupid" -- but no more so than a system where a station needed commodities, but were spoon fed by pilots buying from a broker who was already sitting there. I wanted to be fair since I was criticizing other similar things.

It's unfortunate that many of the social events ended up being built around game "loopholes."