[Injustice]

Originally Posted by Eraser55

And how long can you last in a fight with a nix. Talking about group fights.. And how long can you last with a raven. Nix is to dependent on not being the target. But it always is the first to go bye bye. Anyways.. there are advantages and disadvantages in every ship. But thats another discussion.

Right, I said "take into" a fight, not "flee from" one. Apparently GrimGriz is under the impression that having a "better" light fighter at level 50 would be unfair. I'd like to hear his logic behind that opinion.

[Jonboy]

Originally Posted by Injustice

What the hell are you talking about? The player base has ALWAYS been seperated by level. A nix is still a better ship to take into a fight than a raven or a chirp.

what? O_o You been hiding under a rock, inj?

No it isn't.

It was until the LF/MF/F rebalance. Now, they're all useful. They're designed to have a role in fleet combat.

In a circle fight a nix will beat a chirp, but only because the chirp isn't using it's characteristics correctly.

IMO, the pest was the one of the best ships, one-on-one or otherwise.

[Tritian]

the MF's are good. the LF's are still worthless because of the size 1 radar, awkward gun combo (except the Interceptor), and pitiful speed advantage.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Injustice

Where do you get the idea that having a different version of a ship class available at a higher level equals not skill-based?

If you can beat a pilot of equal skill because he's flying a lower level ship, then the combat is level based with skill as a secondary factor.

Originally Posted by Injustice

Apparently GrimGriz is under the impression that having a "better" light fighter at level 50 would be unfair. I'd like to hear his logic behind that opinion.

I wouldn't say unfair....but definitely level-based and not skill-based. There is an argument that someone who puts forth the effort to get to level 50 deserves a better ship than the person who only can play 2 hours a night/week (I personally disagree. I think a different ship/more options is a justifiable reward for the level 50)

We might be operating under different definitions of skill-based though. When something is 'based' I think that's the primary factor. For example, I think WoW has level-based combat. From top to bottom WoW combat factors go like this (IMO):

1. Level
2. Gear
3. Tactics (what buttons you press when)
4. Skill (controlling range with your opponent)
5. Luck (dice rolls for damage)

In Jumpgate Classic the combat factors go something like this (after level 9)

1. Aiming skill/ship profile
2. Piloting skill (including missle and FF usage)
3. Gear

What concerns me is that from what I've heard from the Scorch, Hermann, and the rest so far leads me to believe the combat factors in Jumpgate Evolution will go something like this:

1. Level
2. Gear
3. Aiming skill/ship profile
4. Piloting skill (including missle and FF usage)

So, when I say I'm scared of Jumpgate Evolution being WoW in space, that's *part of what I mean. That the combat will be based primarily on level and gear, just like WoW.

*the other part is that single player static content vs. players being the content (but that's kind of a thing for a separate thread)

[DynamiK]

A few thoughts.. I liked the idea of a certificate system. If applied to equipment and ships I think it could be really cool and it would allow for unconventional progress. I would imagine something for every level gained you got a certain number of points to put towards your "level" for ships or equipment. I would also assume if you chose to use all your points on ships you could have a 'nix by level 8 or so, but you probably wouldn't be able to equip it with much. So the unconventional route could allow to get to ships earlier but they wouldn't necessarily be able to function as we saw them in Jumpgate Classic until enough points were applied to equipment. Obviously this would require a lot more options in equipment and ships to allow for many different paths to choose without one being the obvious choice.

Another thing I would like to see is ship customization. ie the 'nix has 2 sz 2 and 2 sz 3 guns, but what if you allowed the pilot to apply all the sizes (ie 10 total) to whatever sizes they chose? It would make PvP a little less predictable and maybe allow for something other than the laser nix with 4 thorns or the ammo nix with 2 barracks and 2 hitman.

Just food for thought, anything to give people the impression that their level and the way they customize their "skill" will make them better than a lower level pilot will be good.

[SingleShot]

Originally Posted by DynamiK

Another thing I would like to see is ship customization. ie the 'nix has 2 sz 2 and 2 sz 3 guns, but what if you allowed the pilot to apply all the sizes (ie 10 total) to whatever sizes they chose? It would make PvP a little less predictable and maybe allow for something other than the laser nix with 4 thorns or the ammo nix with 2 barracks and 2 hitman.

I think this would be interesting if they did the gear carefully. I always got a kick out of imagining what would be possible with Jumpgate Classic's gear and that kind of free form. With such a non-standard and non-linear "benefit" per slot size the result was always a broken ship.

[vorlon31]

Another big difference between WOW and Jumpgate is atmospherics.

Its easy in WOW to pad out the games feel with the sound of crunching snow underfoot, wind whistling through trees, the trickling sound of a stream flowing past and birds singing overhead etc. increasing the games draw on your senses.

That level of immersion is something that is a wee bit harder to achieve in a space based game where realism dictates no sound.

But off the top of my head, things I think would work would be cracking sounds coming from roid fields, small ricocheting sounds as free floating shards bounced off roids with firm thwaks and pinioooowws. Deeply resonant cracks and splintering sounds during mining operations etc. Other sounds could be creaks and thunks from stations as they heat up and cool down depending on solar activities.

Of course, such things have no necessary appeal for the log in and shoot people people, so I don't expect the idea to get too much of an airing but I do think that any thought spent on the atmospherics of space would certainly not be wasted and would help with some sensory appeal to Jumpgate Evolution.

[Fian-Skybreaker]

I agree with Vorlon that it is quite often small things which add greatly to the feel of immersion and often these are overlooked.
With regards to Dynamiks points I would like like to see a ship system whereby each ship ship has 'x' slots in total and you can fill these with whatever you choose, want to fly fast, fit more/bigger engines but at the cost of requiring more power and so less room for guns/shields/mod x etc. Want to fit 10 size 1 guns, go ahead, but you will not be able to move, give the player the choice to fit out his ship the way he wants and not the way the game dictates.

[Tritian]

Originally Posted by DynamiK

Another thing I would like to see is ship customization. ie the 'nix has 2 sz 2 and 2 sz 3 guns, but what if you allowed the pilot to apply all the sizes (ie 10 total) to whatever sizes they chose? It would make PvP a little less predictable and maybe allow for something other than the laser nix with 4 thorns or the ammo nix with 2 barracks and 2 hitman.

I like this idea, and it's something i thought would work well within Jumpgate Classic.

Remember the game Mech Warrior? When you would make your own Mechs, you'd have something very much like this. You'd have x amount of slots, and you'd have to physically fit all your various equipment and guns and make it all fit. Something like this would complement Jumpgate very well.

Ofcourse, due to the uberness of FlashFires, you'd naturally have to limit these per ship class to a set maximum amount.

Originally Posted by vorlon31

But off the top of my head, things I think would work would be cracking sounds coming from roid fields, small ricocheting sounds as free floating shards bounced off roids with firm thwaks and pinioooowws. Deeply resonant cracks and splintering sounds during mining operations etc. Other sounds could be creaks and thunks from stations as they heat up and cool down depending on solar activities.

There really needs to be a layering of different sounds within the ship. In Jumpgate Evolution, it'd be nice to have the sounds of various hardware around your ship. the subtle hum of the shield system, the bleeps, creeps, and sweeps of the radar equipment, A subtle air wooshing sound from the environmental system. Random clinks and clanks of space dust/small roid slivers hitting the ship, a pulsating power plant sound along with the low rumble of the engines.

It's be cool if every piece of equipment had a different sound within your ship, so that for example, a size 4 shield would sound beefier then a size 2 shield.

This could be accomplished without the need to create specific sounds for every item. You could have a base generic 'shield' sound, and then run it through a filter to make it deeper depending on the shield size, etc.

Originally Posted by vorlon31

Of course, such things have no necessary appeal for the log in and shoot people people, so I don't expect the idea to get too much of an airing but I do think that any thought spent on the atmospherics of space would certainly not be wasted and would help with some sensory appeal to Jumpgate Evolution.

Choke yourself.

[Karash]

There should be no 'better' equipment...just different equipment for different roles.

[vorlon31]

/ignores Tritian

Fleshing out the sound idea for the roids cracking etc;

Download mining.mp3
or
Download miningfull.mp3

Now of course those are just a static mixes with the Jumpgate mining wav, but if the cracks and pops were separate entities that occurred when chunks/splinters of roid split off during mining (before bouncing of shields sometimes) or even if they just happen as roid chunks naturally bounced about amid the roid fields (and you heard n saw because of proximity), I think the over all effect would be good (even if my mix attempt isnt).