[biteme]

Originally Posted by vorlon31

It all sounds good to me so far. I like loot, I like AI, I like controls and regulatory limitations on pvp in reg space. I like the idea of being able to RP something other than a pvp role without stopping, halting, dealing with or paying credits to the latest player incarnation of 'joo's all gonna die cos you diss'ed meh roid' because he thinks that is the best kind of interaction the game can offer. I like seperate pvp and pve servers differentiated by consensual fighting mechanics in reg space... 'course they might stuff it up from my perspective and swing things back the other way later but I am hoping they continue this approach of giving it massive appeal and making it massively appealing. It has to be better than recreating the game they already have, some of its flaws and all.

Thats just my thought on Jumpgate Evolution so far there really is no need to lynch me for it, I'm just pleased its going in what I think is the right direction - for now at least.

Loot may be fine for AI but I see it as an automatic bounty for player ships and even on a PVE server that may be a problem in unreg.

BTW not all PVPers are greifers who's only interest is to make life hard for PVErs some of us (if not the vast majority) actually like the competition of a fair fight and are intrigued by the prospect of building and protecting a section of space. Witch hopefully will include economic warfare as well with out all the dodging into safe zones to protect them BS.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by vorlon31

I trust ND more than not to get it right.

I trust Istvan more than not to get it right, but he's not running the show at Jumpgate Evolution, the Auto Assault people are.

[vorlon31]

edit:Istvans ok, but 1 mans agenda is never good for a games dev - tows?

Unregs unreg and that truly rocks! It is reg I want to see fixed, for player retention sake. My squads run longer than my stats and they have run since jumpgate.co.uk
Ive followed other trends too, spoken to pilots leaving and kept many of their pm's. Over the years Ive seen pilots come and go from my squad, from other squads and lone pilots too and I know the reasons why.

Personally, I want pilots! Pilots in space fighting the flux. That is my RP, that is what I do, that is what I want and who I am and that is the type of pilot I try to attract to FC. I dislike greatly this pull towards the in space mafiosa pvp style where the biggest family, the family most willing to fight dirty or the loner trying to make a name by being ruthless in reg always wins. I hate it in fact.

Im a man who likes order. I like to pvp today in MT and have no repercussions tomorrow when civ. I like that I think it allows people to experiment, to learn, to grow to make pvp pilots. When the pve unreg/MT/criminal pvp combat pilots think they are hot snot, I am sure they will flip over to the pvp servers to prove their worth but before that point, before they are ready, they wont be driven from the game and to me that is important.

[Grimfalcon]

The hard part for me to get upset, so far, aside from the obvious fact no one here has any idea what Jumpgate Evolution will be like since no one has even played it and we're basing every single conspiracy theory of conjecture, ahem, is that as long as Jumpgate Evolution requires you to fly and aim in order to play, loot to me matters far less than it would if the game relied on dice rolls to dictate your skill.

Now, that of course depends on how and if there's any loot in the first place past what is expected. You kill a flux, and maybe you find a Thorn. The same thorn you could go buy at the market. Great. Some people save money to get things, some people find things. No worries for me there. So, some people that are going to be scared to death of a game that requires them to be a good pilot will actually have a way to ease into that by making the learning curve a bit less harsh then Jumpgate Classic might actually make the game successful. Oh noes. Are we that stubborn and selfish that we either want it 100% our way or to fail? Seems we'd all be a little more understanding since doing it "the old way" worked so very well My god, ND could have shot Jumpgate Classic in the head years ago and said "Well, sorry, good luck everyone". Nope, they kept it running all this time. Least we can do is give them the benefit of the doubt here guys

Say you find a Thorn "+10" that you can't buy in the market. Does that really screw things up that much if that person still has to be good enough to use it in order to "get that +10"? Seriously, loot only bothers me when the game is designed to make "He with the best loot, the strongest". In a game that relies on twitch and piloting skills, loot becomes a tool instead of your character. It's the same with FPS. Sure, there's powerups that everyone can't have at the same time and maybe, with games like Quake Wars, gear that lower ranks can't get, doesn't mean that wielding it makes you suddenly "the winner". Means you still need to know how to use it. I've played FPS/non-roll combat games 99% of my gaming "career" and I've seen players take out the guys with the big guns using their starter guns like it was child's play.

Loot only really gets in the way when it's your only way to improve your skill, aka, when everything you do depends on a random roll and how many bonuses you have to make your chance to miss/to be hit lower.

When you still have to aim, still have to dodge, still have to be a talented pilot, someone with a better gun than you have just means you have to keep getting better and keep evolving with what your enemy can throw at you.

Sure, there's going to be the cheap weapons, the fire and forgets but really, what we have to realize is that if we want Jumpgate Evolution to be successful, you need to give people a realistic learning curve and you need to try and entertain the majority in some fashion. Of course we want Jumpgate Classic to be in Jumpgate Evolution but empty servers isn't something that I considered a feature of Jumpgate Classic. If I have to give up some facets of Jumpgate Classic to make Jumpgate Evolution populated and fun, then I'll let things slide.

If we try and force this game into only what we want, we're assuming everyone wants what the minority wants. And, for ND, while keeping the faithful happy is important, making this game appealing to a large majority is just as important. They have to make money and last I checked, they've not had much luck with doing things "the old way". Jumpgate Classic was popular with us, doesn't mean it's the right way for it to a popular game.

I'm not going to judge it or their ideas until I see it in action. Because, all we're doing right now is guessing. Thing is, we're their biggest salespeople and if we're all not liking the game before it's even been played, then we're just helping it be a failure. I'd expect to see a lot more optimism when not a single person here even has played Jumpgate Evolution yet or even knows for sure what it's going to be like, especially for a game so many people supposedly loved so much.

If we have so little faith in ND after how much a lot of us say we loved Jumpgate Classic, then we will be disappointed no matter what they do. And if we're vocally disappointed at a time that ND needs the most good press, when there's an anticipation and a hype to this game, then people new to this game are going to figure we're the authority here and take our advice and steer clear. I'm fine with saying what we don't want but lets not act like the game's already ruined. If that's the case, all that'll do is make sure there's never another Jumpgate again because word of mouth is the most powerful form of advertising/marketing there is.

Not saying we should be blind fanbois. Just a little bit of optimism might go a long way here.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Grimfalcon

They have to make money and last I checked, they've not had much luck with doing things "the old way". Jumpgate Classic was popular with us, doesn't mean it's the right way for it to a popular game.

Similarly, copying popular games won't make you popular. Jumpgate Classic had it's flaws, and I'll be the first to tell you each and every one of them...but turning Jumpgate Evolution into a WoW clone isn't going to make it successful. It may prevent it from being a dismal failure, but success is a reward for innovators, not copycats.

I'm not going to judge it or their ideas until I see it in action.

Then what's the point of saying anything until the game is released? I've seen these ideas in action before, and while a guy in counterstrike can own an awper with his pistol, there's still relative balance. I can't beat Liet in a 1v1, but if my guns did 30% more damage than his I might be able to. When that happens skill is secondary, not primary, and the game becomes an item grind when all you want to do is PvP.

[mudhen]

Originally Posted by Grimfalcon

Are we that stubborn and selfish that we either want it 100% our way or to fail?

No one has stated they want it their way or to fail. We are voicing our concerns to each other.

Originally Posted by Grimfalcon

Loot only really gets in the way when it's your only way to improve your skill, aka, when everything you do depends on a random roll and how many bonuses you have to make your chance to miss/to be hit lower.

That is what we are hoping for. That it stays skill based rather than gear based.

If we try and force this game into only what we want, we're assuming everyone wants what the minority wants. And, for ND, while keeping the faithful happy is important, making this game appealing to a large majority is just as important. They have to make money and last I checked, they've not had much luck with doing things "the old way". Jumpgate Classic was popular with us, doesn't mean it's the right way for it to a popular game.

Again with the "We are selfish" crap. We are voicing our concerns and ideas, not trying to present ND with ultimatums. (Not that they would be swayed by the pressures of a few)

I'm not going to judge it or their ideas until I see it in action. Because, all we're doing right now is guessing. Thing is, we're their biggest salespeople and if we're all not liking the game before it's even been played, then we're just helping it be a failure. I'd expect to see a lot more optimism when not a single person here even has played Jumpgate Evolution yet or even knows for sure what it's going to be like, especially for a game so many people supposedly loved so much.

The time to voice your opinions and concerns are NOW, not after they have spent countless hours in development only to realize that maybe they could have done things a little differently, possibly along the lines of someone's opinion who doesn't work for ND.

Yes, we are guessing, but that is all we can do based on the limited information they have released. It is possible they are developing the game in such a way that the majority of people would enjoy. We do not know, but we can voice concerns and ask questions in the hopes that we can receive some kind of clarification.

And if we're vocally disappointed at a time that ND needs the most good press, when there's an anticipation and a hype to this game, then people new to this game are going to figure we're the authority here and take our advice and steer clear. I'm fine with saying what we don't want but lets not act like the game's already ruined. If that's the case, all that'll do is make sure there's never another JG again because word of mouth is the most powerful form of advertising/marketing there is.

Don't you think you are being a bit of an alarmist? No one is screaming the game is ruined. No one is telling others to stear clear.

It is a little early to be "the time ND needs the most good press". This game is still a ways from going gold. The best time to start "Hyping" is 30-60 days before open Beta. You begin to early and people become disenchanted when it finally does happen. The magic wears off.

[Grimfalcon]

Just stating how I see things currently reading over certain threads out there. No worries if you guys disagree with that as thats totally understood, but from my POV as someone playing catchup on this forum not having been a member here that long, awful lot of somewhat dramatic doom-saying going on considering how little is known about the game at this point.

[vorlon31]

Loot is something that has been in vendetta Online since the offing. At first in that game there was no player mining, everything came from the loot recovered by shooting the rogue mining bots that were the AI bad guys in that game ( I guess they still are too, I've not been there in a while).

I doubt you'll get a thorn +10 but maybe you'll assemble enough conflux bits to create a flux weapon?? Good to trade, takes a long time to acquire all the parts and assemble and has slightly better stats than standard weapons.

[mosics]

very nice description of the thread opener, i played wow too and these facts with gear argued me so much ...

[Telepath]

So after reading this I don't really feel like playing WoW much at the moment. I'm currently playing WoW, and yea, I think I don't quit simply because I've put in so many man-hours playing the game. I've played it since release Christmas 2004, a bunch of different characters. I have one character that I've spend over 100 days playing. That's time added up to equal 100 days of me sitting at the computer. That's a LOT of time. That's also just one character, I have 3 level 70 characters, almost a 4th, with a smattering of lower levels.

I think I'm just saying this to say that I felt that my year to 2 years of playing Jumpgate Classic was better spent than my 4 of playing WoW. I've never ever felt bad about leaving a guild in WoW, but when I heard Rockdoctor died... dude, that was heartbreaking. I've only met 1 person in all of WoW that I would be sad to never hear from again. It would totally suck if I never heard from SpiritOne, Grim Griz, Snapshot, OutSyder, E)(calibur, Neloangelo, Devo_N, Fuse, Aphelion, Sean, 5Rings, Whitebear, Ronin, Numba1, Mint/Jameson, LeeMajors, Youngbeard, Gremlin, MLDeath, EliteEagle, Partsman, LadyDraco, or countless others that I've played with and still play with to this day. I've been a member of AQM since 2001, I've made friends with men and a few women who I've never met face to face, but I've talked to for hours about random things. Many of these people aren't close to my age, so it's a learning experience for me, but it also makes me feel better about myself that I've had the maturity to become friends with people 5-20 years older than myself. 7 years ago I was 12 years old and in middle school. I'm now 19 and a freshmen in college. I can honestly say I've never had more fun playing a game than with the people who I've played Jumpgate with.

How's that a motivator to play Jumpgate Evolution?