[daslog]

Originally Posted by netburnr

It failed because of the publisher going under and the lack of any form of advertising at all. The old school grpahics didn't help. And lack of updates and support finally killed it

Hermann has said in interviews that even if the publisher problem didn't exist, it still would have failed. It just was not accessible enough to newbies. (I agree with him)

Not as much as they think they did....since they still don't seem to know how to please their core audience.

While they give lip service to their core audience, I don't think (and this is my opninion) they are concerned with keeping 50 or so Jumpgate Classic vets happy when they can attract 1000's of "wow-tards" as you call them.

Actually they are a game developer

Stop being silly. It makes you look immature.

You can't count. Its a new game BASED ON the original, go read the fraking website. It talks about how its going to be epic space battle this, free market that, no where on the official website does it talk about being a WoW clone, you have to read into the forums and dev chats to get that part.

Stop missing the point. It's a whole new game based on Jumpgate Classic lore. It should be obvious to you that ND doesn't feel constrained by any rules set down in the original Jumpgate.

Thier strategy is to listen to all the WoW-tards until the game is utter shit and fails worse than the original...this time with a big publisher and all the hype and advertising they can get, which will once and for all prove that making a WoW clone is a BAD FUCKING IDEA.

What makes you think they are listening to any of the players?

They are following the regular MMORPG development model: Hire a full time community rep to create publicity while providing feedback to the developers that gets ignored.

For better or worse, NetDevil is making the game in the manner that they think is right. They are not listening the Wow-tards anymore than they are taking advice from the people who post here.

[Jump]

Ok this "50 or so vets" propaganda just has to stop. It's pitiful seeing "vets" helping in the decimation of this long standing community. Too many cannibals in this community.

Falsehood and propaganda: "50 or so vets"

Fact: 1000's of vets.

When I used to count player numbers even after the game was failing there were well over 10,000 players listed.

And to say that "the game would have failed anyway" is just over the top as far as I am concerned. Jumpgate launched successfully when compared to the state of gaming as it was then. Everyone wants to compare it to games of now and that is just asinine. The server was full, people were having fun, and new players having tons of fun and learning how to master the game from vets. The game failed subsequently because of the shit that then came from 3DO, Netdevil, and Themis. If they don't want to accept responsibility for mucking up the works then that is their problem. But it is in fact, their fault, not the 1000's of fans that wanted it to work and waited and waited and waited. And they still wait even if unseen. It's not the fault of the 1000's of potential players that wanted to try the game but couldn't even get passed the amateur and embarrassing sign up and payment process. The reason the game failed lies solely on those that were responsible to do more to make it succeed. And they did nothing. Those minuscule amounts of fans that everyone is so quick to crucify have done more for Jumpgate than 3DO, Netdevil, and Themis combined ever did.

There is no doubt in this fans mind why that game failed.

[Radi]

Fact: Jumpgate dev team was reduced to 1 Dev (Isty) over the years. Slow changes and bug elimination, lack of new content adds to lower number of players.

Fact: lack of community management, up until Themis but even then it was bad. When things got really bad, people got hammmered and alot did not like it because new rules were put in place very quickly.

Fact: No advertising

Fact: JOSSH (sign ups and advertisement) down for couple moths. This is simply unacceptable now. And so it was back then.

Fact: Lack of policing bad players in-game and on forums. It finally did happen, but at the cost.

Fact: One part-time RP GM.

Fact: Players could not tryout the game w.o giving credit card number.


It is really amazing that so many people are standing by the game after so many years and so many things that happened over time.

[Jump]

Originally Posted by Radi

Fact: Jumpgate dev team was reduced to 1 Dev (Isty) over the years. Slow changes and bug elimination, lack of new content adds to lower number of players.

Fact: lack of community management, up until Themis but even then it was bad. When things got really bad, people got hammmered and alot did not like it because new rules were put in place very quickly.

Fact: No advertising

Fact: JOSSH (sign ups and advertisement) down for couple moths. This is simply unacceptable now. And so it was back then.

Fact: Lack of policing bad players in-game and on forums. It finally did happen, but at the cost.

Fact: One part-time RP GM.

Fact: Players could not tryout the game w.o giving credit card number.


It is really amazing that so many people are standing by the game after so many years and so many things that happened over time.

Which is my point. The game did not die because of lack of players, or because of specific players, or because of content or graphics, it died because 3DO, Netdevil, and Themis left it flopping like a fish in the middle of the road. It lasted this long because of the fans that poured buckets of water on it trying to keep it alive. And now them and all the little fanbois want to scream "my fish" and tell us to shove off. Well we ain't shoving off.

Talk about thread hijacks.

[Istanbul]

Hey, that actually IS my fish... and remember, fish in jumgate don't need water, so all of you guys need to stop trying to drown it!!!

[Tritian]

i completely agree with radi and jump, and the majority of others in this thread. also, i'd like to give a special 'fuck you' to GG, and a typhoid-infected blanket to daslog.

[daslog]

Think more like a businessman and less like fan of Jumpgate.

Originally Posted by Radi

Fact: Jumpgate dev team was reduced to 1 Dev (Isty) over the years. Slow changes and bug elimination, lack of new content adds to lower number of players.

Jumpgate was done making money within the first 3 months. There just were not enough players. It became a little niche game with a couple thousand subs

Fact: lack of community management, up until Themis but even then it was bad. When things got really bad, people got hammmered and alot did not like it because new rules were put in place very quickly.

see above

Fact: No advertising

True, but even when there was ads, newbs would crash into the station and quit. Those that did last quickly learned that they would need to slog through weeks of boring missions to get to the fun part.

Fact: JOSSH (sign ups and advertisement) down for couple moths. This is simply unacceptable now. And so it was back then.

This was well after the game was already dead from a business point of view.

Fact: Lack of policing bad players in-game and on forums. It finally did happen, but at the cost.

Did you know that 80% mmo players never even register for the forums?

Fact: One part-time RP GM.

You can quote me on this: Jumpgate Evolution will have less. Just like WoW.

Fact: Players could not tryout the game w.o giving credit card number.

This really isn't a big deal when you consider the high percentage of newbs that never make it past level 5

It is really amazing that so many people are standing by the game after so many years and so many things that happened over time.

I've been involved in MMOs since 1997, played more betas than I can remember, written numerous articles, and chatted with numerous MMO Devs over the years.

I've learned that it's not about "Standing By". I've learned that my opinion as a player doesn't count for much. At most, it might get a game mechanic nerfed, a bug fixed, or small balance change.

Actual impact on important game design? Way too late. The important design decisions were all made long before they even announced Jumpgate Evolution. We are just spectators now.

[daslog]

Originally Posted by Jump

Which is my point. The game did not die because of lack of players, or because of specific players, or because of content or graphics, it died because 3DO, Netdevil, and Themis left it flopping like a fish in the middle of the road. It lasted this long because of the fans that poured buckets of water on it trying to keep it alive. And now them and all the little fanbois want to scream "my fish" and tell us to shove off. Well we ain't shoving off.

Talk about thread hijacks.

As I said before, it died long before Themis was ever around. Themis was hire to keep a brain dead corpse on life support.

[netburnr]

daslog just continues to show how much of a nub he is. "I've played more betas than I count"

So what, you can't count past one anyway.

[Radi]

Originally Posted by daslog

Think more like a businessman and less like fan of Jumpgate.

Jumpgate was done making money within the first 3 months. There just were not enough players. It became a little niche game with a couple thousand subs

If it was done making money, why did they pay for the servers? Nobody keeps running an MMO that is not making $$. Even Scorch.

Originally Posted by daslog

True, but even when there was ads, newbs would crash into the station and quit. Those that did last quickly learned that they would need to slog through weeks of boring missions to get to the fun part.

Look at your first quote. Bad business decisions. They should have improved on it. You have to invest some money to make some. While they did already spend alot of money developing, constant improvement makes MMO's make even more money. Of course, I do not know their financial sitiuation at that time.

Originally Posted by daslog

You can quote me on this: Jumpgate Evolution will have less. Just like WoW.

Most likely.

Originally Posted by daslog

This really isn't a big deal when you consider the high percentage of newbs that never make it past level 5

It doesn't for a big MMO. But for a small one, it can. Even if not, it would have shown that developer is commited to the game. Majority doesn't want to play a game that doesn't have full support from their developer. That alone costs you potential paying customers.

Originally Posted by daslog

I've been involved in MMOs since 1997, played more betas than I can remember, written numerous articles, and chatted with numerous MMO Devs over the years.

I've learned that it's not about "Standing By". I've learned that my opinion as a player doesn't count for much. At most, it might get a game mechanic nerfed, a bug fixed, or small balance change.

Actual impact on important game design? Way too late. The important design decisions were all made long before they even announced Jumpgate Evolution. We are just spectators now.

I agree. In the end, it is all about money.

But think of this way. It is doomed anyway. Remember Auto Assault? Publisher pulled the plug even thought people were playing it. Codemasters can do the same. Once you realize that, you stop caring.

Back to the topic.