[dailatron]

Originally Posted by Karash

Its just amazing that this many people actually want a PVP switch.

I have seriously misjudged us as a community.

I think it might have been the ambaguity of the poll/questions or the fact some people just dont want to die if given the choice, which while understandable is not in the spirit of gaming IMO. I still think there should have been a 3rd option for those that dont want to be made to feel like they are just another commodity put in as an after thought for the amusement of PvPers.

The sad thing is out of the ones that chose non consensual probably only 50% are actualy PvPers and maybe 50% of those are possibly civ rippers (pirates/bad guys). So thats 3/4 of the people that voted dont actualy PvP (in the combat sense). Hmm and people say there isnt a clear cut reason to cater for the majority of non PvPers, I say this poll proves most people dont want a space combat simulator (PVP).

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

Sorry, I should have said flight engine and skill-based combat. These are the things I have most often heard from JGers as Eve's shortcomings (frankly I think there are many more). You could not simply drag and drop these into Eve, the whole game would have to be changed.

Sorry but if you are talking about the exploit that allows pilots to use equipment that they dont have the level for, I have no wish for that. I would rather have it so you actualy have to have the level to use it or really it shouldnt have a level for it.

If it used Jumpgates flight engine for fighter type ships it would be skill based anyway. As for the difference between a combat sim and an RPG its simple, the sim mode in station is a combat sim as soon as you launch into real space it becomes an RPG or are you just a green blip on the radar looking to kill other blips ?.

[dailatron]

Originally Posted by SlimPickns

I submit we need everyone, not just who we like. The good along with the bad. There should, be, exploits, like the lock and the lockpicker. If we, as a comunity cant live with them, we wont be able to live at all.

Both Pvpers and Pvers need to accept the fact that a free enviroment gives them the most options, to be able to play a rewarding game event.

The only reason for AI ships, is because, we are failures, as protectors, miners, haulers, RP inventors.

Thats all very romantic but we are only human.

Even in real life those jobs (protectors/miners/haulers) are usualy done by others. The same way I live in a bad crime area but you dont see me patroling the streets trying to stop it. Thats what I pay my taxes for.

[Jonboy]

Originally Posted by dahalb

Stripping is a valid military tactic. Farming was a valid economic tactic. Splashers, well what can i say, so you dont get the +1 to your stats woop-de-do, they still die and lose some credits! Griefers are the only real problem i have but the community should be taking care of them for the most part, with EP's or GM's temp banning the really bad ones as well.

Stripping IS a valid military tactic, but in Jumpgate it was done under the protection of civilian tags. Which is an exploit. Stripping is also lame because your removing your enemy's ability to fight, which just means noone can fight... end of fun. Farming created enough wealth so cash-loss from splashing was meaningless.

Of course, I've tried explaining this a million times, so I don't know why I'm bothering this time.

I agree that genuine griefing can be a problem for some people. By genuine greifing I mean those that create an account ONLY to kill others regardless of tags or RP, and don't care how much damage is done to others.

[Karash]

If squads and pilots could just simply stockpile their own gear it wouldnt be an issue. Better yet, if squads and pilots could simply make their own ships and gear even better. The jumpgate classic economy is too simplistic for any meaningful MMO these days.

[SlimPickns]

Romantic?

Freekin out is more like it.. sorry..

No, i dont pvp,, but i understand that without them, the game would be empty. Do i like being shot,,, ahh, no.

exploites, is a harsh word, just like striping, mostly subjective events to say the least.

The best place i can think of, to leave RL to, is Jumpgate.

I believe in safe zones, but they are deep inside each factions space. Distance is the guard, if five or six more sectors were added, with two stations for each faction. Most pvpers dont like flying for ever to get to the target, and then just as far to escape.

Theres room on the map, without overcrowding.

It would also put depots in the middle of each factions map,, nice for a distrubution center. Could make the pay off for mission ores, the same as a FM for the same ore.

That would generate base ores, silicon,carbon,nitrogen, in quanity, at a centralized spot. Where it should be, at a depot.

I cant relate to most MMOs ecos, or game play.. Ten six, and terra, both had simplistic ecos,, fight to make cash, egads i just relized, how, simplistic.. I am slow, it has taken me most of the time the eco patch has been instaled, to get a handle on the game as it is. now.

The current system is so imprinted in my brain, it makes me near sighted,, if a different eco is in evo, so be it..


I had that once,
In prison.

[Jump]

Originally Posted by SlimPickns

Romantic?

Freekin out is more like it.. sorry..

No, i dont pvp,, but i understand that without them, the game would be empty. Do i like being shot,,, ahh, no.

exploites, is a harsh word, just like striping, mostly subjective events to say the least.

The best place i can think of, to leave RL to, is Jumpgate.

I believe in safe zones, but they are deep inside each factions space. Distance is the guard, if five or six more sectors were added, with two stations for each faction. Most pvpers dont like flying for ever to get to the target, and then just as far to escape.

Theres room on the map, without overcrowding.

It would also put depots in the middle of each factions map,, nice for a distrubution center. Could make the pay off for mission ores, the same as a FM for the same ore.

That would generate base ores, silicon,carbon,nitrogen, in quanity, at a centralized spot. Where it should be, at a depot.

I cant relate to most MMOs ecos, or game play.. Ten six, and terra, both had simplistic ecos,, fight to make cash, egads i just relized, how, simplistic.. I am slow, it has taken me most of the time the eco patch has been instaled, to get a handle on the game as it is. now.

The current system is so imprinted in my brain, it makes me near sighted,, if a different eco is in evo, so be it..

The vBulletin multi-quote button is a handy tool. Simply click the multi-quote button for each post you want to reply to. Once you have clicked the ones you want simply hit the reply but. This allows the rest of us to know who the poster is responding to and keeps the conversation clear and moving along.

[netburnr]

And while we are picking on Slim, WTF is up with that stupid signature....

Jonboy, as far as stripping as a military action...

Are you saying it is valid, and should be allowed for someone to come and pull equipment that took hours for someone else to create? Someone else goes through the trouble and then one person comes along and ruins hours of hard work and hours of fun from others?

I think its pretty fing lame myself

[Ambrosius]

Originally Posted by Jonboy

Stripping IS a valid military tactic, but in Jumpgate it was done under the protection of civilian tags. Which is an exploit.

Fully agree. Stripping is akin to cutting off the enemy supply line. I have always advocated allowing stripping but creating game mechanics that deny strippers civ protection.

Stripping is also lame because your removing your enemy's ability to fight, which just means noone can fight... end of fun.

You have done an about-face here. Is it a valid tactic or lame? Can't part of the "fun" be protecting yourself against strippers? To me, it would be OK with apropriate game mechanics that a) limited stripping to some degree; b) boutied and tagged strippers; and c) allowed recovery of stripped items.

Farming created enough wealth so cash-loss from splashing was meaningless.

Farming did more damage to Jumpgate than 3DO, Themis and Josh (Mr. EP2) combined.

Originally Posted by netburnrol

Are you saying it is valid, and should be allowed for someone to come and pull equipment that took hours for someone else to create? Someone else goes through the trouble and then one person comes along and ruins hours of hard work and hours of fun from others?

Sure, why not? It's just another form of PvP. It simply needs to be harder to do and it needs to have harsh penalties. The way is works now ... yes, pretty f'ing lame.

FWIW, there have been some efforts to "RP" around the lame issue. While trying to disrupt Injustice production, Slim came up with the idea that he would take his (civ) freighter up to Oct to stip the gear needed to make IJs. But . . .

1) he announced his intent
2) he only did it when there were Oct around to try to stop him
3) if the Octs shot him down to armor before he could dock in a Quany station, he would RETURN the items (and not force their destruction).

Right now, you cannot lose when you are a civ stripper, and it's lose/lose if you try to stop a stripper, or extract revenge on a stripper. Slim RPed around the problem, but to me, thre needs to be game mechanics created to avoid the necessity.

[Tim]

i'm not very bright. Is lame the opposite of valid? Did they become mutually exclusive somewhere? Because i always thought station stripping, civ ripping, and most american politics were all actually both at the same time...

[Ambrosius]

Yes and no.

In Jumpgate, "lame" has typically referred to practices that are allowed by the game but are not considered generally acceptable behavior. "Valid" has typically referred to generaly acceptable behavior.

But if you define valid as "allowed by current game mechanics," then yes -- something could be lame and valid.