[biteme]

I would have no problem at all with seperate pvp pve servers I hope the powers that be are at least entertaining the idea. That would solve a ton of player bitching. I for one never got a kick out of killing players that wanted no part of pvping.

@ smaggs did you ever consider that 95% of the sol players were just better than you and not some evil ND conspiericy to make you feel bad? BTW why are you posting here.....waite why am I?

[Raz]

Good. It sounds like you've taken Blizzards (successful) model and even stepped it up one further, since they still have to answer to Vivendi.

lol. Blizzard doesn't answer to Vivendi, because Blizzard makes money hats. Vivendi NEEDS them.

I would have no problem at all with seperate pvp pve servers I hope the powers that be are at least entertaining the idea.

So miners and haulers, people instrumental to Jumpgate economy, are going to play on their own server? I don't think that's going to work.

Like numerous others said before, community policing worked fine. If someone got shot by Rollio the community was more than happy to step in and help the person.

And now there's cargo insurance so why even bring up tow bumping? I'm sure that's something that can easily be addressed.

LAME tactics need to be removed. The ability to make an impact does not.

[king0815]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

Actually limited civving has a smaller penalty now than it did under the old HG system.

But civrips do not count into kills-stats anymore!

[Nanaki]

I like the idea of community policing, but the game does need additional systems to 'discourage' civ-ripping. In addition to NPC police for all three factions, if you get too much 'negative political points', the Faction will treat you as an enemy combatant, and outright bar you from their stations (much like enemy military are barred)

Basically, if a Civ-ripper ends up going into Solrain Core, he will be chased across at least 7 sectors before he will be able to dock at a station. That is, well, assuming that station hasnt banned the civ-ripper as well. Civ-ripping civs from enemy factions should be a valid tactic, but a single person trying to greif will never get far before getting torn to pieces. You dont respawn in enemy stations, either.

In addition, known civ-rippers should be tagged, and a warning given to all civilians in-system when one enters (Only if the civ-ripper has ripped pilots of your faction... Solrain pilots should not be warned about a Solrain civ-ripper that ripped only Octavian civs).

[Tritian]

Originally Posted by Nanaki

I like the idea of community policing, but the game does need additional systems to 'discourage' civ-ripping. In addition to NPC police for all three factions, if you get too much 'negative political points', the Faction will treat you as an enemy combatant, and outright bar you from their stations (much like enemy military are barred)

Basically, if a Civ-ripper ends up going into Solrain Core, he will be chased across at least 7 sectors before he will be able to dock at a station. That is, well, assuming that station hasnt banned the civ-ripper as well. Civ-ripping civs from enemy factions should be a valid tactic, but a single person trying to greif will never get far before getting torn to pieces. You dont respawn in enemy stations, either.

In addition, known civ-rippers should be tagged, and a warning given to all civilians in-system when one enters (Only if the civ-ripper has ripped pilots of your faction... Solrain pilots should not be warned about a Solrain civ-ripper that ripped only Octavian civs).

I think before you start adding additional penalties for civripping such as this, you should be aware of a few things about our CURRENT laws, which already makes carrying a bounty insane.

1) For example, on the first civrip, your PR drops to -120 for that faction, and drops alittle in all other factions aswell, including amananth and hyperial.
2) My bounty while flying a nix was well over 20 million credits. That money comes directly out of my bank account. That means I lose 20+million each time I die.
3) Civilians can attack you all they want, from any faction, including your home faction.
4) You gain 1 pr point per transport mission, even if you have 0 demerits. That means for that 1 civrip, i'll need to do 120 transport missions to work off that bounty, unless I let people kill me. You get about +25pr per every time someone kills you. So that means you'd need to have someone collect your bounty 5 times before you can work off your 1 civrip.

And you want to add additional penalties? If anything, the entire bounty system needs to be WAY less strict then it currently is. It's completely fubar'd right now.

[Lordopic]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

In my opinion what killed the game started way back before release. The extremely long time the game was in beta meant people had been playing for free for so long and therefore didn't believe there was any reason to continue playing because other games were out that had interested them instead.

From there you have the problems with 3DO and then the problems with Themis and you've lost a large amount of the community. Then EP2 and it's problems caused even more people to leave and slowly but surely Themis ensured that most of the remaining community also quit (this is US Jumpgate btw, not sure what went on with EU Jumpgate).


I believe that all this did much more damage than what you posted above.

Mighty games didn’t renew the licence, EU server closed, our two styles of play hit head on, not going to get into the whole server debate as that is best left buried but lets just say it wasn’t what a lot of us were used to and a large chunk of the EU player base left on the express, never to be seen again.

Some of us stuck it out even though it really has been a rough old ride..

Some have dropped by the way side along the way due to some of the stuff you have pointed out, others for other reasons.

[Startac]

I think a Civ Ripper should get the Pirate Tag forever and it shouldn't be possible for those people to dock at any fraktion Station.
The new home for that people, is then the unreg, with its own pirate stations, ships and equipment.
The bounty for killing a pirate should be payed by the TRI gouverment and not by the player. With the first change from a fraktion player to a pirate he should lose no money but a fraktional POS and his depot inventory.
I like the Idea to make the unreg a little bit bigger, make it more dangerous to fly from one faktion to the other. The people have to work much more together then to fly through it.

[GrimGriz]

You people who think the community could then, or can now, police themselves have your heads in the sand.

First of all, dying in a fighter is little to no penalty whatsoever. Especially in Mat farming days. The community may have chased civ rippers and forced them to dock, or even podded them on occasion, but that's not policing, that's entertaining. I've played as a complete insight pirate, and ran from all sorts of people. Guess what, the running is a gorram blast. So, I figure 'being policed' in the olden days was a hell of a lot of fun.

Second of all, all the dude ever had to do was dock and go watch tv for half an hour. The community chasing him would get bored. The pvpers would go back to fighting each other, the fluxxers would go back to doing whatever it is they do, and then he could come back and launch and find someone else to civrip before he got to have a fun chase-and-dock again.

Lastly, worse case scenario is that he pays big bounties and has no cash. All he has to do is make a second account to buy/make gear and drop it off at his POS (or EE, or whereever). And that's just a solo jackass, not one who has a bunch of friends.

The only GOOD solution is to make non-pvp ships able to defend themselves/run away/or survive long enough for help to come from 2-3 sectors away. Actually PvP limiting switches like WoW has would also work, but they'd really spoil a lot of what Jumpgate should be, and aren't a GOOD solution in my book.

[daslog]

Originally Posted by Tritian

I think before you start adding additional penalties for civripping such as this, you should be aware of a few things about our CURRENT laws, which already makes carrying a bounty insane.

1) For example, on the first civrip, your PR drops to -120 for that faction, and drops alittle in all other factions aswell, including amananth and hyperial.
2) My bounty while flying a nix was well over 20 million credits. That money comes directly out of my bank account. That means I lose 20+million each time I die.
3) Civilians can attack you all they want, from any faction, including your home faction.
4) You gain 1 pr point per transport mission, even if you have 0 demerits. That means for that 1 civrip, i'll need to do 120 transport missions to work off that bounty, unless I let people kill me. You get about +25pr per every time someone kills you. So that means you'd need to have someone collect your bounty 5 times before you can work off your 1 civrip.

And you want to add additional penalties? If anything, the entire bounty system needs to be WAY less strict then it currently is. It's completely fubar'd right now.

None of what you listed above prevents civ ripping a player that does not want to be ripped. It's all reactionary. Not to mention that whenever someone decides to quit, he can fly around for 2 hours ripping Civs until he cancels.

I understand that people want freedom. When you mix Wolves and Sheep, eventually the Sheep just cancel and play something else.

[alphabet]

Title: Is Jumpgate Evolution going to fix what killed the original?

There were a lot of things that killed the original, but they all stem back to not enough communication from the developers, listening to a vocal minority of the playerbase and not including the whole community.

Every game I've played since Jumpgate has been plagued by developers listening to a minority in the community. BFRs/numerous unwarrented nerfs/cave combat in Planetside, character class and skill reduction in Star Wars Galaxy and WoW nerfing the paladins and other classes, are good examples.

A few companies like CRS (World War II Online) interact with the playerbase and answer questions, but they clearly have their own unbiased agenda. They give the player tools to play, expand the content every patch and fix bugs. Before new patch is released, it is put on the test server for everyone (the whole community) to test and comment.

This is the way to keep Jumpgate Evolution from going down the road of EP2. We as a community expected much, much more in EP2 which wasnt delivered and the things we did get were not play tested to make sure they meshed with the EP1 gaming environment. All this can be contributed to lack of communication from the developers to the community, the inclusion of a few biased testers and lack of letting the whole server test the expansion before it was released.

In short the best thing for ND to do is to listen to our comments, but not implement anything unless it "plays" well and is fun. In future patches they need to communicate what they are trying to acheive in that patch cycle and let the community as a whole test it on a test server. Observe comments and tweak if necessary.

Listening to a few "special" pilots for decisions that affected us all, was a bad decision.

[Nanaki]

BFRs/numerous unwarrented nerfs/cave combat in Planetside,

BFRs and Cave Combat were both something that SoE added as a 'gimmick' to try to lure more people to play Planetside, and were horribly implimented to begin with. By the time BFRs were actually fixed, they actually became a quite enjoyable part of the game, and have actually made combined-arms assaults almost necessary to win a battle. Tanks get eaten by BFRs, but BFRs get eaten by infantry and MAXes, especially at close range. As for the nerfs, the best way to investigate the issue, from a developer point, is to go in-game and actually watch the players play.

Developers actually playing their own game for anything other than controlled tests (and even than, lately they have been leaving it to QA to do that) seems like an arcane concept now.

and please yes, ALL Concepts should be tested throughly and balanced before adding in. New concepts shouldnt be thrown out the window entirely, but if they sound good enough, should at least be given a try. Refusing to add something new will just kill a game just as quickly as horribly implimenting something new.