[SingleShot]

I'd rank the Dragon pretty high on an "effectiveness scale" if you're ranking the danger of ships with relatively bad/new pilots. A new pilot may not be scary to someone that knows what they're doing, but if there is any noob-flown ship that will make me sweat it's a Dragon. And just think about a battle between a noob in a Dragon and a noob in a deathtrap like the Typhoon.

I cooked this graph up years and years ago*. The Dragon would probably be a flat line on it (I exaggerate, in all cases, but for effect. Ridgeway/Sucky/whatever was pretty scary in a mortar Dragon. But generally that ship was just simply scary)


*Obviously balance has changed for the better. The Phoon and Nix have both moved up. The Nix is probably now better than the Phoon at any skill level, but the Phoon with feathers, a burst cap and a 8500k gator is pretty easy to fly...much less of a learning curve.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by netburnrol

Hahahaha, did he just say the Dragon is a good ship?

Simply spam it to death, you don't even have to aim. Its so slow and huge that a couple of newbs could missle it to death.

No, he said the dragon is an easier ship to do well in with less skill. When fighting a dragon there is a much smaller room for error than with other ships...and if it wasn't for that pesky ship they'd not have had a very good argument for nerfing my precious mortars into oblivion.

The point though, is I have a hard to imagining a loot system that doesn't make skill less important than present in combat. There is the small chance that the crafting system will be more convenient than the one in WoW I guess. I mean, if I'm making size 3 engines, but any level player can use them and they aren't overly rare-drops required to make them, then their prevalence might balance the difference made by better equipment...but it will be a fairly delicate balance.....they better hurry up and let us into beta so we can give them feedbacks

[Bingofuel]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

Ok, so they've made it clear that there is going to be loot and crafting, but I have to pose the question...if that is true, how is it possible that skill will still be the determining factor in combat if there is to be meaningful loot?

You still have to aim and shoot. Your equipment modifies your ships performance. Jumpgate Classic though the equipment choices were limited, you were limited to what you could use based on level. An excelent pilot useing noob equipment doesn't stand a chance against a pathetic pilot useing top level equipment. Unfortunately in the upper levels everyone is evenly matched equipment wise.

With crafted equipment in the mix you have no idea what you will be up against. Nothing will be predictable and IMHO this is a very good thing. To win fights you will have to be both a good pilot and a good ship builder.

[netburnr]

Bingo is right, it still going to come down to the pilot. Even if player xyz has the new fangled superduper engines, there is going to be something about them that is not perfect, like they take away a little too much power from his cap so he can't shoot as fast, or has to run a smaller gun. ND is smart enough to figure out good ways to balance them, and if I'm in Beta, I promise you I will do my best to point out any uber equipement.

SS, I love the graph

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Bingofuel

Jumpgate Classic though the equipment choices were limited, you were limited to what you could use based on level.

That's incorrect. You were limited to what you could buy based on level. You could 'twink' noobs right and left for the small cost of insurance. It wasn't ever like World of Warcraft where you choke on certain food if you're not high enough level.

[Bingofuel]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

That's incorrect. You were limited to what you could buy based on level. You could 'twink' noobs right and left for the small cost of insurance. It wasn't ever like World of Warcraft where you choke on certain food if you're not high enough level.

Oh yea, thats right, you could allways use brokered equipment. I never took advantage of that. I prefer the strugle of useing only what I can get at my level and what I can afford. Evolving is what makes these games fun for me.

You are limited to the choice of ship hulls based on level which limits the equipment you can use.

[Anvil]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

That's incorrect. You were limited to what you could buy based on level. You could 'twink' noobs right and left for the small cost of insurance. It wasn't ever like World of Warcraft where you choke on certain food if you're not high enough level.

My feeling was always that whenever a player obtained a level opening up a new ship to them they should have access to the best equipment for that ship. This gets rid of brokering but still gives you something to work for (ie getting bigger (though not necessarily better) ship access).

I know I have gone COMPLETELY off topic now but on a side note why are their some ships that are "better" than others? Why can't they just be different. i am going to search the forums for a thread on this or start one now...

Anvil

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Anvil

I know I have gone COMPLETELY off topic now but on a side note why are their some ships that are "better" than others? Why can't they just be different. i am going to search the forums for a thread on this or start one now...

If you mean in Jumpgate, it's because they were designed that way. The light fighters and medium fighters used to be vastly inferior to the level 26 fighters too. You'd be amazed how often people were "leveling up to 26" so they could start pvping. Istvan reworked the fighters to the level = choice formula instead of the level = better formula, but never got around to doing it for the hauler and miner ships.

[netburnr]

Yeah I remember way back in the day I was leveling because I wanted to fight and I finally hit level 15 and ended up flying the scout for a very long time, it was the only ship that could chase down the tense and I was constantly finishing off the "fleeeee"ers

Then the OEC start running the scout packs and really started kicking ass which just proved that speed = win in Jumpgate Classic