[Anvil]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

That's why I'm curious to who their target audience is. If you turn it into a WoW clone for that audience, all you have is the gimmick that you get to fly your own ship....which isn't a draw for that type of gamer imo...that's a draw for counterstrike people, old guys that played wing commander privateer, and people in EVE with an imagination.

I'd hope their target audience is people who enjoy skill-driven Space Simulators with RPG elements. RPG is all about customization which enhances the RP experience and sets you apart from others. They already have a good foundation for that in Jumpgate Classic which they just need to expand on (ie - more ships, guns, missiles, careers, etc.)

At the heart of Jumpgate for me is 2 things. For non-PvPers there is an entire player based economy out there waiting for you to make your mark in. And for PvPers the combat comes down to skill. These are the main elements which continuously drew me into Jumpgate Classic.

WoW (and I have played this game extensively) comes down to who has the better Gear. This creates a bad aspect and a good aspect. Bad aspect is that at end game everyone wants to grind for the same gear thus looking the same and destroying individuality. The good aspect is it gives players a goal and something they can show off and be proud of.

Anyway when the guy in the video says FPS and MMORPG's don't overlap I don't think you can just replace "FPS" with Space Sim and say the same thing. As long as Jumpgate Evolution is centered around the two major playstyles of PvPers and non-PvPers then it will be a success. You see, the benefit Jumpgate Evolution has going into this is that the economy ACTUALLY matters whereas it really doesn't so much in other MMORPG's thus giving non-PvPers a viable and fun playstyle.

Final note: There is a 3rd group of players out there that Jumpgate Evolution can easily tap into and that is the PvE folks. By putting more emphasis on the Flux and creating major "Raid" scenarios for Squads, PVE can become a huge part of the game as well.

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[Ambrosius]

Jumpgate has very little RPG in it (IMO). FPS . . . space sim. Yes. If you look at the dev Bios in Darkspace Dispatch SR-2, you see a lot of Auto Assault experience and a lot of "FPS" as favorite genre.

Draw your own conclusions.

But as Jump said earlier. Only time will tell.

[Jonboy]

Meh...

-Grind is not good, but a necessary evil

If you come up with some sort of awesome alternative, I'm sure you'll let us know.

[Anvil]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

Jumpgate has very little RPG in it (IMO). FPS . . . space sim. Yes. If you look at the dev Bios in Darkspace Dispatch SR-2, you see a lot of Auto Assault experience and a lot of "FPS" as favorite genre.

Draw your own conclusions.

But as Jump said earlier. Only time will tell.

Well when I think of RPG I am focusing primarily on the customization available. If you want to fly a bomber around and use mortars you can... it's your choice. If you want to put low mass gear on your Pest for extra agility you can. If the game were designed that when you bought a ship it came equipped with certain equipment that you couldn't change then that would be horrible.

IMO being able to equip your ship the way you want is VERY similar to the way characters choose their Armor and weapons in traditional RPG's. I play Jumpgate Classic because of both elements.

Also, RPG is at its core Roleplaying and I don't see how Jumpgate has little RP in it. It seems ripe with it and something worth expanding.

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[netburnr]

There is some RPG in Jumpgate, always has, and I sure as hell hope it comes over to Jumpgate Evolution as well.

There was a ton of RP going around, some only on the boards to explain in game actions, and others who would immerse themselves in their RP (remember MEDIC always flying around the PvP scene with repair guns)

I didn't RP that much as netburnr, he was more of an extension of myself, but my pirate character was a "RP" that I wanted to try, and I tried to keep him within the limitations of said RP.

[Jump]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

Jumpgate has very little RPG in it (IMO). FPS . . . space sim. Yes. If you look at the dev Bios in Darkspace Dispatch SR-2, you see a lot of Auto Assault experience and a lot of "FPS" as favorite genre.

Draw your own conclusions.

But as Jump said earlier. Only time will tell.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. But then I remember that Scorch had a dream years ago and he still has some influence into how things go at NetDevil I believe. Meaning no matter what their favorite types of games are, it's still a space combat sim with a lot of potential and that carries a lot of weight towards the end result. *crosses fingers*

[Jimac]

I remember reading somewhere in an ND interview, that trying to work out a formula for a succesful game was not the direction they intended to go. Netdevil were going to try and make a game they would like to play themselves...more power to them.

[Scorch]

While we are adding a ton of new types of advancement and lots of different things to do in the game to make it more "fun" (at least what we think will be more fun), we are certainly not adding dice rolls to chance to hit. At its core, Jumpgate is still the same game where pilot skills matter.

So depeding on if you think of RPGs as people playing roles or dice rolls effecting the outcome of battle will determine your definition of if Jumpgate Evolution is an MMORPG or an MMOFPS. I tend to believe all online games are involve roll playing so I have always thought of the term RPG meaning dice rolls to hit type of games.

[Istanbul]

I actually believe all games involve role play, excepting those in which we play characters who sit on their butts playing video games for hours a day. Last I checked, I will never fly a FW-190, have a professional NFL/MLB career, summon Ifrit, and hopefully never shoot someone with a gun in real life.

PS. To clarify the last point, the only way I would ever end up shooting someone with a gun IRL would be if the draft were instituted and I was forced into the military. Or a small percentage chance of a hunting accident. (Very small chance there as I do most of my hunting at McDonald's).

[Anvil]

Originally Posted by Scorch

While we are adding a ton of new types of advancement and lots of different things to do in the game to make it more "fun" (at least what we think will be more fun), we are certainly not adding dice rolls to chance to hit. At its core, Jumpgate is still the same game where pilot skills matter.

So depeding on if you think of RPGs as people playing roles or dice rolls effecting the outcome of battle will determine your definition of if Jumpgate Evolution is an MMORPG or an MMOFPS. I tend to believe all online games are involve roll playing so I have always thought of the term RPG meaning dice rolls to hit type of games.

WOW hehe... it never even occurred to me that people would think RPG = rolling dice but with the popularity of DnD and it being the godfather of RPG I can see now how you'd see that.

I define RPG based on its acronym Role Playing Game and I see it as any game where you can take on a persona and see it through via your actions and/or communications.

I am glad to hear that Pilot Skill is still top dog on the Jumpgate Evolution agenda!

Funny thing is that while you had a different definition of RPG than I do I probably have a different definition of FPS. FPS to me is purely focused on hand-eye coordination and leaves NO room for non-combat related gameplay. If Jumpgate Evolution is going the way of FPS's by that definition I will not be playing... I can pick up any hand-eye coordination game and get that satisfaction.

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[GrimGriz]

Well, while you're throwing definitions around ....
to me MMORPGs have taken on their own definition as a video games that follow the model of Dungeons and Dragons. Particularly in that as you progress through the game, you "level up" and become more powerful. Additionally, items that you couldn't use at lower levels become available to use, and thus a player who is level 50 can easily whomp the bejeesus out of several low level players.

This equipment difference can make this true even in a game where combat is 'twitch based' If I can mount the thorn Mk. III +4 because I'm a level 47 quantar, and SingleShot can only mount the thorn Mk. 1, then skill becomes far less important than level.

That's worrisome because it was actually somewhat attempted when Jumpgate Classic was originally released. Light fighters were a joke compared to Fighters, and even when medium fighters were released they were made to fit into the level = better model.

Istvan attempted to fix this, and I think an excellent job was done, though it's quite possible that the limitations of ship profile and such resulted in slight too good quant MFs Sadly, the concept never made it to non-pvp ships, and the transport is completely inferior to the tow in every way, even to this day.

I guess, Scorch, if you're still reading this, the direct question is - will I have to grind to level X to be on equal footing combat-wise like in other MMORPGs?