[Lordopic]

The only flaw with the above is NO fluxer wants to baby sit a miner.

Turrets? Why not drones or if your mining have sentry drones/missile ammo or laser not sure if they would work but a missile battery firing off MS would hold things at bay whilst you made your escape

Its late and about a nano seconded went in to the thought of that one.

[WileE]

Lordo, why not?

In my for instance, where you have a flux-heavy sector, why would a couple fluxers not want to provide cover for a miner? They get to do what they want...flux...to the benefit of their faction, or even their own ends, as there will be more materials to continue the flux war.

Maybe it's just me. Lord knows it has been before.

[GrimGriz]

WileE, I don't disagree that multiplayer options should be encouraged, and unless there's only 1 flux in that high-flux sector your talking about, my vision of a turreted miner would still need to not be alone. However, he could have 2 or 3 mining friends with him, and they together could provide each other with adequate defenses.

Similarly a convoy of MACK freighters, if attacked, could "circle the wagons". That's a more appropriate analogy in my mind, as I see Jumpgate as more of a wild wild west than modern air combat. Jumpgate will always be vastly different than RL combat, as no-one actually dies. You can't really secure and hold a territory either, not the way you can in RL military action anyway, people log off.

You're of the opinion that defenseless ships encourage player interaction. That's our fundamental disagreement. I feel they necessitate faulty systems (such as the registry/bounty system) that provide a false sense of security. It's my opinion that bringing them up to the same level as everyone else (where skill is more important than shiptype, even if it's a different skill set) allows for the reduction/removal of false systems.

Without the false security blanket, more haulers and miners (even turreted ones) would be more interested in working with fighters for escort/quick response. They'd be valid HONORABLE targets too, which would make escorting them a generally less boring adventure.

Well, that's our disagreement best as I can tell anyway. That about get it, or do you think our fundamental disagreement lies elsewhere?

[Jump]

It's -=MACK=- by the way GrimGriz. And I can assure you that back in the day, -=MACK=- pilots were never defenseless in any way, shape, or form. And if -=MACK=- reforms in Jumpgate Evolution I would be willing to bet they would handled any emergency whether they have turrets to fire or plushy flux to throw at an enemy. It's all about attitude and a will to get the job done.

[GrimGriz]

I know jump, but typing -==- is a major hassle, and it was just an example anyway

[Elmdor]

Here's my idea.

Deployable Sentries. Im sure its been said before.
Takes up a MODX slot. Can be dropped out of a ship at any position. Carries 1 size 2 gun which is equipable by the player. The Sentry cannot move.

I feel its more balanced in confrontations then turrets, because then the hauler and fighter are at a stalemate. The fighter attacks, he possibly gets killed depending on number. The hauler moves, he is out of the protective sphere. Both pilots need someone else to help. Turrets last 5 minutes, or 40 seconds of sustained shooting, whichever comes first. Other Possible countermeasures: Can be neutralized by a rechargeable EMP modx with 1 charge per dock or aoe splashed by a nuke. I'd prefer they be indestructible to regular gunfire rather then have a paper tiger.

[Lordopic]

Originally Posted by WileE

Lordo, why not?

In my for instance, where you have a flux-heavy sector, why would a couple fluxer’s not want to provide cover for a miner? They get to do what they want...flux...to the benefit of their faction, or even their own ends, as there will be more materials to continue the flux war.

Maybe it's just me. Lord knows it has been before.

I take it by Heavy flux sector your are not including Flux space, which since the AF no longer works there has become a no go for miners full stop with or with out fore mentioned flux cover.

Spawn rates in flux space make it imposable. The time it takes to get a killable/towable spawn vastly outweighs any gain. In other words your spend far to long getting in to the sector of choice, unless its Aman leap or the Depths or Explorers Haven, and then you have no time spawn so whilst your chap is mining what do you do.

That takes us onto say mining in a high sec in TRI space, most high spawn sectors are in Unreg, not that matters due to lower numbers pirates Unreg gang bangers are not a problem, but boredom is, Ok fluxer one jumps into gets a spawn which can kill or tow, fluxer 2 comes in tows his fluxer 1 tags they kill the flux then the miner comes in he mines fluxer 1 and 2 sit in space twiddling their thumbs killing the odd time spawn.

One of them could jump in and out spawning flux but depending on where it is will depend on the likely hood of being caught by rats or Unregers, most fluxer’s have only limited PVP skills, I have lost a few ships due to killing swarms in Unreg, then been caught with my pants down. ( its Unreg so I didn’t mind and this was when Balrog where more active here but it also happened on EU a few times due to the Unreg squads of old. ) but its stopped me chasing swarms into Unreg.

The only way your going to help your faction and get big flux is to mine. Mokks, Outer Depths, Outer Third, only one worth doing there for a few reasons is OD, and then im not sure if the roids in there are worth it

I have done it before covering a FC mining opp. into Unreg it was fun, but more because I was doing it with squad mates and I spent a lot of my time doing space acrobats just to keep my self busy

. Most fluxer’s want to log in and kill flux not log in and sit around talking over f3, but again this is from a personal view point I log in and its 9/10 im straight into flux space to spend some time fighting flying chilling in there.

Depending on where the miner wants to mine and TBO who they are, and how much the pay is I would think it would be very hard for one to get some one to cover for them., Unless it was a in squad opp.

just in case you get confused this post reflects the current state of play, not what might be

[Tstrike3]

Originally Posted by Jump

It's -=MACK=- by the way GrimGriz. And I can assure you that back in the day, -=MACK=- pilots were never defenseless in any way, shape, or form. And if -=MACK=- reforms in Jumpgate Evolution I would be willing to bet they would handled any emergency whether they have turrets to fire or plushy flux to throw at an enemy. It's all about attitude and a will to get the job done.

Back in the day ripping a -=MACK=- tow got a very angry squad of about 30+ haulers in Tensities,Nixes, and Phoons at your front door.

[Jump]

After all, we were the hauling squad that went to war with Rollio.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Lordopic

I take it by Heavy flux sector your are not including Flux space, which since the AF no longer works there has become a no go for miners full stop with or with out fore mentioned flux cover.

Spawn rates in flux space make it imposable. The time it takes to get a killable/towable spawn vastly outweighs any gain. In other words your spend far to long getting in to the sector of choice, unless its Aman leap or the Depths or Explorers Haven, and then you have no time spawn so whilst your chap is mining what do you do.

That takes us onto say mining in a high sec in TRI space, most high spawn sectors are in Unreg, not that matters due to lower numbers pirates Unreg gang bangers are not a problem, but boredom is, Ok fluxer one jumps into gets a spawn which can kill or tow, fluxer 2 comes in tows his fluxer 1 tags they kill the flux then the miner comes in he mines fluxer 1 and 2 sit in space twiddling their thumbs killing the odd time spawn.

One of them could jump in and out spawning flux but depending on where it is will depend on the likely hood of being caught by rats or Unregers, most fluxer’s have only limited PVP skills, I have lost a few ships due to killing swarms in Unreg, then been caught with my pants down. ( its Unreg so I didn’t mind and this was when Balrog where more active here but it also happened on EU a few times due to the Unreg squads of old. ) but its stopped me chasing swarms into Unreg.

The only way your going to help your faction and get big flux is to mine. Mokks, Outer Depths, Outer Third, only one worth doing there for a few reasons is OD, and then im not sure if the roids in there are worth it

I have done it before covering a FC mining opp. into Unreg it was fun, but more because I was doing it with squad mates and I spent a lot of my time doing space acrobats just to keep my self busy

. Most fluxer’s want to log in and kill flux not log in and sit around talking over f3, but again this is from a personal view point I log in and its 9/10 im straight into flux space to spend some time fighting flying chilling in there.

Depending on where the miner wants to mine and TBO who they are, and how much the pay is I would think it would be very hard for one to get some one to cover for them., Unless it was a in squad opp.

And this is all valid because you know, Jumpgate Evolution is going to be nothing more than upgraded graphics... nothing else about the game will change...

[Lordopic]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

And this is all valid because you know, Jumpgate Evolution is going to be nothing more than upgraded graphics... nothing else about the game will change...

Yawn,

TBO Honest I should have said that this is how it is now and maybe in Jumpgate Evolution it will not be the case but im so sorry for that mistake and thank you so much for pointing it out to me. I shall now go forth and repent my sins. I could go on but your boring me now.