[daslog]

Originally Posted by dailatron

Actualy it turned into a discussion about stripping.

Some of the econ stuff in Eve is good, namely the mining but I much prefer the X-series production system.

You mean like in X3? I don't see that working in a MMO though.

[dailatron]

Originally Posted by daslog

You mean like in X3? I don't see that working in a MMO though.

Why not ?.

If you had an active Jumpgate account you might have read the discussion about it, and then Im sure that would have put all your doubts to rest.

[daslog]

Originally Posted by dailatron

Why not ?.

If you had an active Jumpgate account you might have read the discussion about it, and then Im sure that would have put all your doubts to rest.

It's because economies from single player games don't translate well into MMO's. If you are interested, Sam Lewis has done a number of talks at the 2006 GDC. Here is a link

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While I don't agree with everything he says, I think he's spot on for most of it.

[dahalb]

I liked the X3 economy however I agree that it probably would not translate that well into an MMO as is. A tweak here and there and it may work quite well though.

As for policing civ-rippers having AI police in force in the station sectors would be a good idea. The community should be able to police the griefers for the most part. Civving should continue to be part of the game however in the interests of keeping the peaceful types there should be some places where there is less of a threat, not a safe zone per se, but a safer zone(s).

[Lordopic]

The community should be able to police the griefers for the most part.

The only problem I have with this is whole subject is, just how would it would it work if the community got big. and with any luck space has got bigger in Jumpgate Evolution. It ok to chase a civer around Jumpgate as it is and with the current numbers but x the size of Jumpgate and its player base but a factor of 10, would self policing still work ?

Also do’s it actually work now for that matter?

[Injustice]

Originally Posted by Lordopic

The only problem I have with this is whole subject is, just how would it would it work if the community got big. and with any luck space has got bigger in Jumpgate Evolution. It ok to chase a civer around Jumpgate as it is and with the current numbers but x the size of Jumpgate and its player base but a factor of 10, would self policing still work ?

Also do’s it actually work now for that matter?

The thing about self-policing is that it has to apply to someone that the community perceives as a griefer. Like the old saying goes, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Specifically, the pilot in question would need to be on bad terms with a large number of people that were willing to take up arms against him (or pay someone else to do it for them).

Another option would be to make the bounty hunter RP extremely lucrative (for a noteworthy example of the methods and means of a legit bounty hunter RP, see Star Wars Galaxies). Nothing draws fodder to the cannons better than the promise of huge piles of cash.

[GrimGriz]

As long as death in a fighter is virtually painless or something you can circumvent with a second account, making the civ rippers ship explode isn't really much of a deterrent.

*edit*
However, if you address the imbalance between death in a fighter and death in a civilian ship, there might not be a problem. The last time I played Jumpgate Classic, it was a multiple trip/hour job to get a freighter full of electronics. When an asshat can make all that effort disappear and not really lose anything when his ship blows up, you have an imbalance (imo).

[xerout]

Originally Posted by dailatron

Sorry, but you have got to be kidding me. Producing, non producing what does it matter ?.

FYI - A producing station can replace goods that it is capable of manufacturing over time. In other words....if I strip Havens from a station that produces them eventually there will be Havens available again without any outside interaction. If, however, I've stocked some havens at a non-producing station for all of my faction mates to use but one guy comes along in a TOW and takes them all for his POS no new Havens will appear in that station unless I restock. "Stripping" as has been described here was used during war time to prevent squads from being able to defend thier own space with top-line equipement. Once POS were introduced "stripping" went massively into over-drive and almost all top-line equipment dissappeared from faction stations into individual pilot stations.

X

[Injustice]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

As long as death in a fighter is virtually painless or something you can circumvent with a second account, making the civ rippers ship explode isn't really much of a deterrent.

*edit*
However, if you address the imbalance between death in a fighter and death in a civilian ship, there might not be a problem. The last time I played Jumpgate Classic, it was a multiple trip/hour job to get a freighter full of electronics. When an asshat can make all that effort disappear and not really lose anything when his ship blows up, you have an imbalance (imo).

I think I have a solution to the whole civving issue.

For starters, do away with the automatic bounty system. Just throw it out. The reason being, the game doesn't descriminate between someone who civs a station stripper or blockade runner and a legit griefer. In exchange for the automatic system, install a player regulated system where someone who civs a pilot is susceptable to bounties placed on them by other players (keep it so that bounties can only be placed on civ rippers, or else it would get totally out of hand). For example, say pilot X goes around randomly civving haulers and noobs. Pilots Y, N, and J, who're all veteran players with credits to spare, input bounties on pilot X.

Here's where it gets interesting. These bounties aren't for just any random fluxer to claim, however. In order to cash in on the bounties, a pilot would need to be actively hunting the bounty, thus a new RP is born. So pilot Q, a PvPer, flies to QC and opens the bounty terminal and takes a mission for pilot X, who just logged in. Pilot Q equips the "Criminal Tracker 5000" modx, which continually feeds him the bountied pilots location and whether or not he's docked. Pilot Q flies to that sector and rips pilot X, recieving his reward of 50 million credits, curtesy of pilots Y and N, who put bounties of 25mil each on pilot X. Pilot J, however, didn't put a monetary bounty on pilot X. He bought a "time hack" bounty worth 24 hours. Which means that pilot X won't be logging in for a day. That's money well spent.

[Tim]

That's a pretty cool idea, Injustice.

Frankly, i think it's a great standalone concept, regardless of the whole civ-rip fiasco.

Allowing pilots to bounty each other? sweetness. Having some sort of MODx that perhaps allows a pilot to see all reported beacon data, regardless of faction? Bonus. Missions for bountied pilots? Dude.

I'm less keen on the time-lock concept.. that's just harsh. Let the pilot deal with his actions, not force him to avoid them. Let him fly. Give the rest of us a target.

All that said, though, i don't see how it solves civ ripping. your freedom fighter is still my terrorist, and all that. We all agree that computers can't maintain proper perspective. I put forth than neither can pilots

Civ ripping isn't a problem you can 'solve'. This monolithic thread is clear proof that we aren't talking about broken game mechanics, unbalanced equipment design, bad economic models, or poor mission generation.

Civ ripping is what happens when one pilot has any ability to attack another pilot. If we can attack each other, we'll use whatever methods will let us win.

Politeness be damned. There's your civ rip.

[Wild_Bill]

Very true Tim, but there must be some mechanism to protect those uninterested in combat interaction, or those who don't want to be vicims. Unfettered civ-rips run folks off. Plain and simple. Injustice's plan sounds like a good idea to me.