[SingleShot]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

oooh oooh I know!
If you civ someone, the next time you dock you are taken into custody, and for the next 24 hours of actual playtime you get to avatar inside a prison cell. Every 20 minutes you have to answer a series of random multiple choice questions correctly to make sure you're not burning off your time afk or you get disconnected.

QUESTION 1: What is the name of the game you're playing?

a) Spaceships in space: Attack of the Carebears
b) Idlegate
c) Vorlon31's darkest fantasy
d) Turreted mortars in space with gimped POS and lag


in other news, civving is fun. I'd hate to not be able to do it to the lametards that need it.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by SingleShot

QUESTION 1: What is the name of the game you're playing?

a) Spaceships in space: Attack of the Carebears
b) Idlegate
c) Vorlon31's darkest fantasy
d) Turreted mortars in space with gimped POS and lag


in other news, civving is fun. I'd hate to not be able to do it to the lametards that need it.

None of the above, I quit after being civved. There's a couple of ways to look at this:
1. Make getting civved not suck.
2. Make civs invulnerable.

At this point, I'm not as opposed to #2 as I used to be, because too many of you are bound and determined to make sure you can still pick on the people who choose to play the game differently than you do.

[Ambrosius]

Now let's let WileE and Ambrosius tell us just exactly what they'd like to see in the game that would keep the wolves away from the sheep? the bears away from the bulls?

You misunderstand my point, WB. I'm saying that wolves SHOULD be threatening and killing the sheep . . . that this is GOOD for Jumpgate (if not for WB). I simply suggested that there needs to be limits so the bad guys can be a threat, but not dominate the game.

I know you hate this concept. So will GG. I'm not saying I'm right or you're wrong. Just differing opinions.

P.S. I've probably been civved more times than both of you combined -- albeit back in the early days. While I did not enjoy being civved, I enjoyed the rush of running through dangerous space with a hold full of uninsured equipment, I enjoyed not knowing when "a Rollio" would pop oout from behind some roid, and I enjoyed the rush of docking with just a few shreds of armor left on my tow.

[SingleShot]

In the civing sense, I think it's worth looking beyond just the "innocent hauler, bad guy killer" scenario. And there are lots of alternatives.

For example, a long time ago some guy decided to kill a former squaddie during a flux attack, I think said squaddie must've picked up a temp accidentally. Temps are pretty innocuous, and killing someone for no good reason during/after flux attacks is pretty lame. But fortunately the lack of a civ chip effect allowed for meaningful retaliation.

There are many things out there that may not be against the game mechanics' laws but many players may object to. An entirely non-comprehensive list would include stuff like station stripping, bounty seeding/killing, arti/flux stealing, flux dumping, 2nd/3rd/19th accound stocking and financing, civ beac tuning, tow bumping, reg/unreg abuse, civ spying, smack talking. etc.

I would hate for a player's ability to react to such things to be prevented by game mechanics dedicated to preventing griefing. The last version of such penalties in Jumpgate Classic may have swung a bit too far on the harsh side. But who knows...

[daslog]

Originally Posted by WileE

Escort Missions?

I am not typing all that again. I realize it isn't the most exciting option, nor does it have the glamor of turrets, but I think it is an important piece of the puzzle.

Bottom line everyone: There is one way, and only one way to absolutely guarantee that you will never, ever, ever, ever be "civ ripped". That is civ invulnerability. Everyone pretty much agrees that that is not a good solution. Given that, EVERYONE must take a step to the center. Any civilian pilot, even with turrets, and missles, and more armor, and escorts CAN be shot down. If you (general you, not you you necessarily, unless you are part of the general you, then it is you you too ) are not willing to accept that, then Jumpgate has a huge problem.

I don't agree. I think Civ invulnerability by using Eve's system is the correct way to go.

[Montaugh]

I can see a Civ Chip being a reality in Evolution. You are safe in faction zones and unsafe in unreg. This system makes sense to most MMO players as they are used to a tag/flag/zone based pvp system.

In order to have mass appeal and reach the most gamers possible then a civ chip becomes more and more of a reality. You will not draw many players into a game where they are little more then targets. This didn't work in jumpgate TRI over the long run and we can only speculate what would have happened if the Civ Chip had been implimented all those years ago when the devs thought of putting one in.

Evolution isn't just about the fancy graphic upgrades and making space seem fuller. We also need to attract and appeal to as many players as possible. This is a buisness and we all need to adapt and make adjustments to see jumpgate Evolution succeed. Jumpgate has always been a game of great potential but it will never grow beyond what is it now if the playerbase is not willing to accept some changes.

They have the tech to seperate Civ missions and Military missions. It does not take a huge leap to see Military missions offering better payouts and XP because of the risk and dangers associated with them and civ missions while being safer not offering as large of a payout. This allows a chip system to work and gives incentive to flying military style.

Pirates would even fall into the sytem. Go to an unreg system and flag yourself as a pirate. At this point you are able to hack beacons to unreg status and are given tools not only to rob ships but disable them for a short period of time so you can rob them. (no more of this Pay or Die stuff though) Hacking a sector wouldn't be just flying through a beacon. You would have to stop for a time in the beacon to hack the system at which point you'd go after your target. The more sectors you hack the easier it is to catch your target but the easier it is for people to determine your location. I mean think about a pirate mission system.. collect x cargo, hack beacons at x, y, z so npc pirates can appear, scout out y location, rob Z building lots of possiblities. Players would naturally be able to tune the unreg hacked sector back to faction space by stopping inside the beacon to unhack the beacon.

Just because a civ chip could be implemented doesn't have to make it the end of the world. A lot of things can be done with the civ chip system that just wouldn't work as well under today's system.

[daslog]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

You misunderstand my point, WB. I'm saying that wolves SHOULD be threatening and killing the sheep . . . that this is GOOD for Jumpgate (if not for WB). I simply suggested that there needs to be limits so the bad guys can be a threat, but not dominate the game.

I know you hate this concept. So will GG. I'm not saying I'm right or you're wrong. Just differing opinions.

P.S. I've probably been civved more times than both of you combined -- albeit back in the early days. While I did not enjoy being civved, I enjoyed the rush of running through dangerous space with a hold full of uninsured equipment, I enjoyed not knowing when "a Rollio" would pop oout from behind some roid, and I enjoyed the rush of docking with just a few shreds of armor left on my tow.

Wolves killing sheep ALWAYS ends up with the Sheep leaving the game. If you need some examples, refer to Shadowbane, Ultima Online (pre-trammel), etc, etc.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by daslog

Wolves killing sheep ALWAYS ends up with the Sheep leaving the game. If you need some examples, refer to Shadowbane, Ultima Online (pre-trammel), etc, etc.

... jumpgate...

[Ambrosius]

Originally Posted by daslog

Wolves killing sheep ALWAYS ends up with the Sheep leaving the game. If you need some examples, refer to Shadowbane, Ultima Online (pre-trammel), etc, etc.

Funny . . . this sheep (me) never left. Guess it's not ALWAYS.

[Injustice]

When you put it in that context, it's the sheeps fault for wandering away from the herd without a sheperd.

There really is an easy way to resolve this issue without making a big rift between the two sides of the controversy here, and that is to make a compromise. That's assuming both sides are willing to meet halfway. On one side you have the pro-civving crowd that believes everyone should be attackable at all times. On the other side you have the pro-carebear crowd that believes civilians should be invulnerable.

I can see why the carebears would want to be invulnerable as much as I can understand why us PvPers want the exact opposite. It's because a carebear can be just as deserving of being civved in a fully loaded freighter as someone who flys around poding n00bs. The only viable solution I can see is to make a players own-faction space invulnerable for civilians. Once you travel outside of your own factions space, though, you're free game.

[vorlon31]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

Funny . . . this sheep (me) never left. Guess it's not ALWAYS.

LOL!

So even though literally hundreds of players did leave...

Hey, don't worry, every thing is A-OK because Ambro-'horse-hair-undies' didn't.

My ego doth bow in your shadow...