[Tstrike3]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

Here's a FACT from the past: Rollio was running people out of the game in open beta, when it was FREE.

Wrong! Rollio forced pilots to play the game the right way... Either you defended yourself or you planned your activities carefully. That is completely irresponsible to blame one pilot for folks leaving a game. If pilots were that weak, perhaps Jumpgate was not the game for them.

Look Jumpgate is not Sim City or Legoland for that matter. This isnt carebearland. Space is dangerous from the time you flew your first ship you knew what you were getting into. Rollio's contributions (thats he was on the test team) to Jumpgate Classic are pretty good concerning ship balance and gameplay. Hell Rollio actually gave pilots like me tips on what I can do to get better.

Crapola on such an assertion Grim. Put away your "Grudge Axe" and bring something positive to this discussion. Even you know better.

*sigh*

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Tstrike3

Wrong! Rollio forced pilots to play the game the right way... Either you defended yourself or you planned your activities carefully. That is completely irresponsible to blame one pilot for folks leaving a game. If pilots were that weak, perhaps Jumpgate was not the game for them.

Look Jumpgate is not Sim City or Legoland for that matter. This isnt carebearland. Space is dangerous from the time you flew your first ship you knew what you were getting into. Rollio's contributions (thats he was on the test team) to Jumpgate Classic are pretty good concerning ship balance and gameplay. Hell Rollio actually gave pilots like me tips on what I can do to get better.

Crapola on such an assertion Grim. Put away your "Grudge Axe" and bring something positive to this discussion. Even you know better.

*sigh*

I think the issue here is that folks like GG don't play the game to prove how large their genitals are. They probably takes care of that in the real world.

Some folks play games to relax, other folks play it to show how big and bad they can be. It's all good. Thing is, since might makes right, there is no relaxing. PvP folks clearly think anybody who does not fly 95% fighters are week pilots, with small pee pees, and they should leave.

Anyway, for what it's worth, that's a perspective from a different angle. It's obviously not a correct or valid perspective, since it doesn't advocate PvP, but if you were ever curious how somebody like Rollio could run a pilot out of the game, there you go.

[Tstrike3]

Originally Posted by Tim

I think the issue here is that folks like GG don't play the game to prove how large their genitals are. They probably takes care of that in the real world.

Some folks play games to relax, other folks play it to show how big and bad they can be. It's all good. Thing is, since might makes right, there is no relaxing. PvP folks clearly think anybody who does not fly 95% fighters are week pilots, with small pee pees, and they should leave.

Anyway, for what it's worth, that's a perspective from a different angle. It's obviously not a correct or valid perspective, since it doesn't advocate PvP, but if you were ever curious how somebody like Rollio could run a pilot out of the game, there you go.

Tim,

I sincerely appreciate the perspective, but asserting that a pilot ran folks out of a game as fact is irresponsible and muddies GG's overall point. I strongly concur with WileE's factoid.

Since we are all pilots, is there really such thing as PvP vs PvE vs non-PVP? I think it is easy to try to classify and box in players, which Jumpgate doesnt do from a gameplay perspective. At some point, everyone fires a weapon or utilizes some sort of ordinance.

Civripping is going to be and will continue to be part of the overall mechanic of Jumpgate. Non military duty pilots will continue to be exposed to hostile pilots and aliens. At some point, pilots have to take the responsibility to deal with those aspects accordingly.

And that, my friend, is a resonating fact like it or not.

[Chemdog]

Originally Posted by Pyldrvr

What about a panic button that teleports you to a random location somewhere else in the universe?

Maybe it has an hour cooldown on it, takes up two modx slots, and is somewhat unreliable

Clearly technology this superior could only come from gnomes.

[Chemdog]

Originally Posted by Gander

I think we can take a lesson from EvE here. There are lots of places that are almost completely safe. There are lots of other places that vary between that and certain death for anyone that dares venture there without a fleet. The more risk one is willing to take, the greater the reward. It's completely possible to never, ever venture out of safe space. Bland, boring, but that's how some people want to play.

Tsk, tsk Gander. Have we not learned what Neocron taught us? You could run around with your noob chip in and never have to worry about getting killed by another player. What happened? The carebears whined that they couldn't use the same skills/gear as the pvpers until 3 levels higher. What followed? Removal of the level penalty for players wearing noob chips.

In WoW, carebears complained for hours upon hours that hardcore raiders got really pimp gear for all their time spent in raids and they couldn't get the same stuff for spending 1/10 of the time in game. What happened? WoW let people do a series of quests which didn't need 6 hours online at a time and cost some gold to get upgrades to their gear (Tier 0.5). What followed? Carebears whined that it cost too much money and took to long to get, all while being not as good. They didn't even take part in or reside on pvp servers.

The point? Doesn't matter what you do, everyone wants equality. Give them their own damn server with no chance to fight the scary Liets and Rollios where all they do is flux and they'll complain that on some other server, in some other country, on some other planet their stuff is superior. As long as the stat appears somewhere to show they have a disadvantage, someone will be preaching for the downtrodden.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Tstrike3

Wrong! Rollio forced pilots to play the game the right way... Either you defended yourself or you planned your activities carefully. That is completely irresponsible to blame one pilot for folks leaving a game.

No, it's not wrong. People were playing the game, having fun. Rollio would fly into sol space (don't ask me where the great defenders were, you know the guys "Policing the community" and make their ship explode. Then, mysteriously, you wouldn't see that pilot anymore. Even though the game was free....weird eh?

If pilots were that weak, perhaps Jumpgate was not the game for them.

Look how many people Jumpgate wasn't the game for! Jumpgate Evolution had damn well better be the game for them, because I think Scorch will be pretty damn disappointed if we're getting excited about 55 people online in Jumpgate Evolution a year from now.

I'll put it to you: If space is supposed to be dangerous, why can't HMs with turrets make it dangerous for YOU.

[Ambrosius]

I think Rollio and his ilk made the game extremely exciting. Back when they were playing, there was plenty of good policing, and talk of them driving droves of the people from the game certainly does not jibe with my memory of the situation.

3DO drove people from the game. Moll drove peole from the game. JOSSH breakage for months and months drove people fromt he game. EP2 delays drove people from the game. Trogdor drove people from the game.

Rollio . . . {shrug} . . . I suspect those that left because of Rollio would ultimately have left anyway.

[alphabet]

I remember watching the system messages about rollio when I was lil'sol nub. It scared the be'jesus outta me, but I didnt quit because of it. I just ran and hid like a lil girl until I could protect myself. I later ran into him when I was in a tow, we shot at each other a little bit (enough to get me skird) then he took off heading for sol core. We chatted the whole time and he was actually a pretty nice guy and not the meanie I thought he was. Do I respect him, no, not for shooting civs and low level ones at that. But I respect him as a player of the game. If an NPC would have been doing that and not another player, i definitely would've cancelled my account.

I got killed a lot as a PvPer in Jumpgate, and it never bothered me to get killed by a player that wasnt a jackass. Ive actually had a lot of friendly conversations with the "enemy". 95% of um are good peeps playing the game same as me, Id sprinkle a few percent as people RPing and the remainder were inmature, f**ktards, but that happens in RL as well.

Thats just my opinion.

[Liet]

**** you alphabet, I always hated you

[GrimGriz]

It's not like I didn't have fun chasing Rollio myself, but I remember people quitting FREE beta because of him, and I remember similar things happening consistently. Maybe a single player didn't drive out droves, but civving has caused a pretty consistent trickle of players out of the game. Personally, I think a big portion of that is the defenseless of non-fighters.

For example, if everyone on this forum who thinks the community successfully can or did police itself decided to wage a "squad" civ war on the people on this forum who don't think the community successfully policed itself...what do you think would happen?

[WileE]

GG, your passion for the concept is clouding your logic.

In the exact instance you lay out, the non-fighters would be slaughtered. Now, the question is, would that really happen??? You and I both know the answer is no.

As I see it, in that exact circumstance, the responsibility for community management falls solely on the GM's. They should intercede to prevent a server-destroying event.

Something I have noticed in most every debate involving civing and whatnot. We never, ever, ever, ever look to the GM's. If civing is a major problem, they are in the best position to act and react accordingly. If there are major civ problems, they are the ones to solve the problem. Of course that would then bring the cries of OMGWTFBBQ the GM's are teh evil.

I really wonder sometimes if there is a win to this at all.