[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Chemdog

Not to give away all my secrets, but if they do implement turrets, I'm flying a plasma dragon and my buddy is flying a burglar ranger. Anyone who shoots back is going up in flames. And I don't care how slow plasma is, or how many turrets you have, my gliding dragon with plasma beats your stationary miner with turrets any day of the week.

Which would be why the haulers and miners need to work with other players, and turrets wouldn't be a win-button

[Liet]

I'm still confused as to what you're hoping to achieve with these turrets Griz. Just to make sure a lone pirate takes some shield damage? To make a hauler feel like he's doing something productive, when he still has little to no chance?

If they don't change the outcomes of any pirate/hauler situations, why bother?

No offense, but I can't help but feel like the goal is just to get them ingame, where they'll wind up being overpowered, and any mention of a nerf will be whined out of existence. I don't care if turrets are added if they don't change outcomes, but as I said earlier, a noncombat ship should not stand a realistic chance against a heavily armed war vessel.

Put it this way: If a turret can kill one of those noncombat pilots who occasionally start up two-week pirate squads (a la squik), it's not overpowered. If it can get me below %60 armor, it's overpowered.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Liet

I don't care if turrets are added if they don't change outcomes, but as I said earlier, a noncombat ship should not stand a realistic chance against a heavily armed war vessel.

I'm not going to disagree with this statement, but let me clear it up for you The TRI galaxy is a galaxy at war. War with the conflux, war between factions, war with pirates. Therefore, no ship should be designed to be a non-combat ship.

So, what I'm hoping to achieve is to change non-combatants to fellow combatants that gather/relocate resources. Ofcourse, they should be balanced for fleet engagements, so that everyone doesn't fly a freighter into battle. On the other hand, in the hands of a skilled pilot, a vulture or khamsin should be useful in the war party.

[vorlon31]

Just increase the internal cargo space of dragons to 700 while ignoring cargo mass forever more. Then make every ship in space, in every faction dragons of different colours and put shields, ecm, caps, pp, radar, engine, guns and modx into the same tool point pool to share.

Then ships can be tailored to suit by the players choice of need for their ship fitting whatever combo of equip they choose until the tool point pool is used up.

[Etouffee]

I have an idea for ya.. Not sure if it has been said before (lots of posts I skipped) but with the advent of NPCs in the game how about this.

Instead of turrets how about being able to hire NPC escorts? I can see it going somthing like this. It may be a little simple but try and envision it please.

Ok so your a trader/miner kinda of player. Your at a station and you need an escort and you know no one wants to guard your silly butt out to mine and then back to a station. So you pull up the NPC escort list. Depending on the station your at you get different choices in not only pilots but also pilot level and ship type.. I would say put a limit on how many NPCs you can pull out of a station but not on the level or the ship type.

Ok so Joe wants to mine and he is say Wake station. He pulls up the NPC escort list. He sees pilots he knows (Because set pilots would be housed there) So he sees that there is, Fred a level 31 Med Fighter Pilot (also maybe a load out of what he carries) that will cost 50k credits an hour. Next there is Bob who is a level 45 Hvy fighter Pilot who costs 150k an hour.

For example sake lets they there are other pilots listed but Joe chooses these 2 as escorts.. So now he has 2 escorts that cost him 200k an hour to use and as long as he is paying they stay with him. Now Joe will have some control over thier function once they launch but they still should have some uniqueness about them. Maybe for example Bob is highly agressive and will fire on anything that gets close to try and pick a fight. Next time Joe is looking for an escort he can note that and might avoid taking Bob with him for that reason. Also as for what contol you have over them it would be general such as Passive though Agressive settings and maybe formations.

Anyway just another way around this issue. I would think a limit of 3 escorts would be good. Having to pay them by the hour for use should keep the abuse of using them down and having some limited control would be nice. I do think it would be very important to have set lists of Pilots at each station and have them with different skill levels and traits. You can also have them listed with varying degrees of factional loyalty which would be nice.

Anyway just trying to toss up an idea that is outside the box yall have been banging you heads on

[GrimGriz]

It has been suggested before. The question then would be how many escorts = 1 human pilot? If the answer is 1, then why should bob the hauler be able to control 2 players worth of ships for the same price as the guy just flying the fighter.

I'm not saying AI escorts wouldn't work, just that it'd be harder to balance. If the resource gathering combatant had less control over the AI escort, he could have a turret and hire additional help in the event he thinks he'll be confronted by more than 1 hostile.

[WileE]

Escorts are completely out of the question....






...unless they have turrets on them too.

[Etouffee]

Originally Posted by WileE

Escorts are completely out of the question....






...unless they have turrets on them too.

LOL I was thinking the same thing.

Ok first off by your responce Grim I don't think you really read my post. You would be charged per hour for each escort and it would be on a sliding scale depending on the NPC level. Not sure how you equate that with 1 guy controling two ships for the price of one.

Second you would not be in complete control.. You could issue orders for your mini fleet but some of the AI would be more apt to follow orders then others so you have some that would do well with your order and then others who might stray abit.. As you do missions you weed out the ones who don't work as well for you but the only way to find out is by taking them as escorts or by word of mouth from someone who has.

Third you could do the same for turret NPCs if your so fond of turrts. Put Turret stations on a ship, Hire an NPC to man it and he would still charge X amount of credits per hour to be in your employee.

Now if it were me I would prefer the escort over the turret. Looking back as an example lets use bombers in WWII. Did they have turreted guns.. sure they did but they were the last line of defence. Escorts were needed as turreted guns, although a deterent to some extent, would not really protect the aircraft very well. You see in movies where guys pick off aircraft out of the air and dont get me wrong some guys were able to get kills out of turrets but...... I bet if you researched the K/D ratio for Turrets vs Aircraft is much much less then Escort Vs Aircraft.

So pull your head out of the turret because I think the air is getting a bit thick in there and you might need to breath a bit

[GrimGriz]

Ok first off by your responce Grim I don't think you really read my post. You would be charged per hour for each escort and it would be on a sliding scale depending on the NPC level. Not sure how you equate that with 1 guy controling two ships for the price of one.

I meant price as in $14.95/mo subscription, unless your plan is to balance it by allowing pirates to hire AI pirates to come with them. If you do that though, you basically have AI that cancels each other. The pirate AI buddies fight the escort AI buddies, and you're left with the current situation, a defenseless sheep by game design.

Mocking me might make you more popular with the all the people that disagree with me, but it doesn't address the flaws of your idea, which is kind of the point of discussing them.

Further, having turrets doesn't negate the need for escorts. I'm not implying that with turrets escorts won't be needed. In fact, I think turrets will increase the need for escorts. It's not Escorts vs. Turrets....it's more Escorts and a turreted ship vs. Escorts and a non-turreted ship.

[Etouffee]

I am not mocking you

As for price I thought you were talking in game which is what I had refered to.

As far as AI control I would see its use to be for miner or freighter escort only and no command for attack.. You would not be able to hire AI to assist you with fluxing as a tool to level or to use as an attack force.

Sure there are ways around mybe as an exploit but I am just trying to look at other ways to address this issue. Your basic need is some protection from CIV Rip and I see NPC Escorts as the better answer and it could also add some flavor into the game play by being able to hire these guys and learn which ones work the best.

When it comes down to brass tacks though they would be the best protection bar real player escort and the level of protection you would get would = the amount of money you pay out per hour to them.

Jumpgate Evolution will have AI and will have NPCs so why not think of creative ways to use them.. Like I said you can work it out to put them in turrets.. I just think escorts would be better.

So in short no I don't see a problem as far as what you pay per month and how that ties into how many ships you control in game as it boils down to you controling 1. The AI can be commanded but not controled.

Also I do not disagree with you I just see turrets as limited in the scope of things.

[WileE]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

Mocking me might make you more popular with the all the people that disagree with me, but it doesn't address the flaws of your idea, which is kind of the point of discussing them.

As I stated to you privately, this has nothing to do with you personally. It has to do with that fact that the community, in general, has thrown out MANY options other than turrets to help the non-combat ships better exist in a hostile universe.

Your response: NO!! Turrets are the only solution!!

What about escorts: NO!! They will not work without turrets!!

what about more armor: NO!! They will not work without turrets!!

We are all trying to do the same thing, make Jumpgate Evolution better. We all have ideas, and generally think they are the best idea for going forward. Someone else is going to point out a flaw or oversight and the idea gets refined. Your incessant mantra of TURRETS TURRETS TURRETS actually detracts from your point, as you sound like a whiny child who wants to know if we are there yet.

Truth be told, I don't have a problem with turrets as an idea. Take the forward guns off and put on a pilot-manned turret (with REASONABLE weapons) and the non-combat pilots can better fight off flux dumps and whatnot. I am, however, opposed to any increase in weaponry which turns the non-combat ships into death stars, as that will destroy any potential balance we had. Turrets will not...actually, can not be the only means of defense for a non-combat ship. I suggested a possible solution regarding a structuring of escort missions out here. I see that as a possible solution, in addition to a reasonable turret. I feel though, that you would not see this as agreeable, as you will not be able to mine and kill off 10 pilots at the same time.

Whatever man. We are all working to the same end on different paths.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by WileE

I feel though, that you would not see this as agreeable, as you will not be able to mine and kill off 10 pilots at the same time.

I'm going to be flying a fighter. I'm not turret crazy, I just want non-combat ships to be removed from the game and replaced with combat ships that do the same job without