[Nafcon]

Yes to turrets. It's quite an interesting idea to switch in a turret position and get rid of squids.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by dahalb

For my mind its pretty simple, civilian ships (ie non-combat ships)

Space is dangerous, there are no civilians.

[dahalb]

And Grimy gets the rasberry .
Space is dangerous but there are civilians.

[Chemdog]

If you start talking about removing tags, GG, now we're talking a whole new ballgame.

[Jonboy]

As long as turrets don't make crafts with them better than combat ships, i wouldn't mind.

As a suggestion, you could have them take up a missile slot. Then you would be choosing your defense method.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by dahalb

And Grimy gets the rasberry .
Space is dangerous but there are civilians.

Not really. It's more like there are combatants, and non-willing combatants.

Re: Tags....they seem to me to be little more than ignorable defenses. Sure, they may stop lazy people like me from taking a bounty (don't want to run the missions to work it off), but they've never really caused much hesitation for a large percentage of pvpers.

[Jonboy]

I have issues with GG's arguments. adding turrets for the sake of a semblance of self-defense produces just that... only a semblance. It's either gonna have teeth and be overpowered when the craft is empty or be ineffective one-on-one. If it's ineffective one-on-one then the pilot is GOING to need help from another pilot or need to dock (I like them to need help it's an MMO after-all). But giving them the ILLUSION that they can fight on their own is going encourage solo playing - which is ultimately going to be frustrating.

I appreciate the idea that being in a situation where you can't even fight your attacker feels very bad. But adding turrets is just going to delay the inevitable. Either you like mining in a ship where you're eventually going to die if ganked at the wrong moment... or you don't.

[Ambrosius]

Well since we now have "uber AI" in the horizon, why not be able to equip/rent an AI escort (or two or three) at very unreasonable prices? Couple this with Proximity mines and nasty "hauler/miner-only" missile packs, mega shields . . . and (at last resort) cargo insurance.

I've heard "econs" say over and over again -- THEY DONT WANT TO FIGHT. GG's overly-repreated survivability idea is better served by defensive rather than offensive weaponry. Turrets are cool for cap ships, but I tend to believe other remedies may be better for "econs" survivability.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Jonboy

I have issues with GG's arguments. adding turrets for the sake of a semblance of self-defense produces just that... only a semblance.

JB, a semblance that allows you to actually damage a ship is better than the semblance that being civilian means you won't get shot (that we have now). To me, adding turrets says to the player "You will be attacked, this is what you should use when that happens" whether it's flux, pirates, etc.

The ships already have have guns, they're just mainly useless because the boats turn too slow. Taking them off the front and putting them on at turret just makes them usable.

I don't care what methods are used to improve miner and hauler self-defense, I just prefer turrets. I just hope that most of you realize something needs to be done.

[Wild_Bill]

Ambro by "unreasonable prices" do you mean high or low? If high, why would I waste an already slim profit margin for the questionable benefit of having an AI escort that would have to be less capable than the average PvPer? For something that only MIGHT happen? IF they were cheap (similar to insurance rates) then they could be a good thing. I would envision them pretty much like using missiles on big flux. You don't really expect to take your opponent out, you just hope to buy enough time to get away.

Defense/offense is simply a matter of which way the muzzle is pointing. Any weapon can be used for either purpose, some more readily than others admittedly.

Back to Eraser: Yes the Oct HM can be quite awesome in either combat mode or mining mode. Unfortunately, it's not very effective at either in a hybrid role. Yes it has two size 5 gun slots. Yes it can equip either two flails or two sz 5 mining lasers. So you can either equip one Flail (or lessor weapon) for defense *most likely requiring a modex slot for a duelist * and cut your mining in half *even if you waste another modex slot for a mining amp* or depend on three missiles for your total defense. Let me know how well you like it the next time you try it.

If you added either a third sz 1 or sz 2 gun slot for flux defense or else a turret with the same weapons limitations, it would increase both the mining efficiency and the survivability of the excellent Oct HM. A turret, either AI or swappable, isn't going to add much to the combat capabilities for the Vulture but could give it a better chance against the average flux dump as it currently exists.

[Eraser55]

Giving mining/hauling ships more gun slots/turrets or any kind of combat enhancements will make them less "civilian/friendly" ships and more pvp/legal target ships.

I just don't think giving non combat ships, more combat enhancements is going to give you any protection, it will be less protection.

But hey, when you do get all these turrets and stuff. Pls stick to jumpgate and don't whine about being a bigger target then you are now.

example F5chat
GrimGriz: Pls help me.. Im attacked by pirates, Im flying HM.
Eraser55: to bad.. use ur turrets..your fully capable to protect your self now.

lol bad example.. hehe

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Eraser55

Giving mining/hauling ships more gun slots/turrets or any kind of combat enhancements will make them less "civilian/friendly" ships and more pvp/legal target ships.

While this is true, I think we've all been playing Jumpgate long enough to realize legal targets or not, they're going to get shot.