[GrimGriz]

Right, but how those factions feel about each other would affect how they interpreted your actions.

[Lordopic]

Why does it have to be political rating?

Maybe get rid of political rating altogether, change it to ( ok nicking idea from Eve.) loyalty points for civ’s and military points/standing for Military. Plenty of players are factionalist but don’t take up arms and plenty of players have moved away from their birth faction.

Hate to say me and I a lot here but as you know I have no interest in the factionalist game ( I did back on the EU server running around for Sol like a headless chicken, but since the merge I have lost it ) but I work and live in Amanath which I try to keep my poll rating at 125 or there about. But as for their politics I haven’t the faintest idea what it is., but would be nice to have something to show for the hard work I put in.

I keep their space free from Conflux and try to monitor Swarms etc in and around flux space ( ok that’s all IC ) but I don’t travel to any other faction space unless I really need to, I know players that spend 99% of there time in Hyperial space etc.

Not sure what I mean by this and ill have to think some more on it.

[Liet]

Originally Posted by WileE

The one thing I never understood was how I could be a hardcore Oct factionalist, with medals from Solrain and Quantar, who were enemies. That doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense I could be Revered in Oct, Sol, and Quant at the same time, while killing their pilots. That is ridiculous.

This is true, but it's for a very good reason. The game has no way of knowing whether the Sols you've killed are truly fighting on behalf of Solrain. I didn't think Tyke was serving the Empire well, and he didn't think I was. Who's right? So the rep system does the only thing it can do: it steers clear of pilot politics.

This is good. No one should lose Oct PR for killing Aslan, and the game shouldn't take sides when two Sol squads are fighting each other.

Your idea about losing PR for specifically designed missions is a good one, that's the only situation I can imagine PR adjustments working right. Hope this makes sense, my head hurts. Nice seein ya Wile

[WileE]

Granted Liet, however, a given faction should not be happy that there is infighting. I think that internal kills should still have a PR penalty, though less so than against other factions. That said, your point is well taken. Two squads fighting for what they feel their faction is for would have to be addressed somehow. Unfortunately, I don't have that answer at this moment. I am sure there is a means to handle it.

Something to think about. Most of Aslan and Tyke's support for the Empire was verbal. Given that, they would not have a high PR either. PR in this fashion can also be used by the factions as a measure of, for lack of a better word, loyalty. Leadership is earned through actions, not words.

[Chemdog]

What about pirates, Wile? Assuming there are no pirate factions, TexMurphy (Synergy) is killed by Valen (Sol Navy), does Valen lose sol PR? It's well known that Tex is not a sol factionalist but the system doesn't know any better.

Unless you start taking into account what each pilot's PR is vs the pilot he killed/was killed by. This would be the only marker of how loyal a pilot is to a certain faction. But then you have the problem of Aphelion having a 125 sol PR as a quant that gets killed by Valen having a 120 sol PR in a raid of sol space and Valen loses sol PR. The system becomes too complex with having to take into account not only pilot PRs, but the war system as well. The whole thing is just too complex for the game to sort out.

[alphabet]

I really like the ideas.

The only way that this can really work is if its placed as a core design of the game. Meaning that I have to "choose" to become a factionalist, pirate, trader, privateer, whatever. This choice affects what missions I can take, how it affects my PR. It defines my RP. If I go against that game design, I would be severly penalized, however I can always re-choose my RP.

I brought this up in another thread, but everyone poo poo'd on it because they thought it limited their choices of what they could do in-game (it doesnt really), but what it really does do is define an RP that you "choose" to follow and allow the game mechanics to take over. Having the choice system in place is the only way that PR can work the way you describe, because it defines what will happen in what circumstances.

I personally think its an excellent direction for the game to follow, although I am sure to hear shouts of disapproval now from people who dont understand anything about advanced gaming and are locked in their view..

[WileE]

That is very true Alph. This would have to be built as a core of the game. Basically PR would help be a barometer of your character.

Chem, I think tags will have to weigh in at some point. I will get back to you on this. I am at work and cannot troll too much.

[Wild_Bill]

Alph, maybe I just don't understand what you are aiming for here. To me, having to choose a RP at the start doesn't make sense (as a new gamer that is). I had no idea whether I wanted to be Oct, Sol or Quant. If Hype or Aman become playable, the choice would be even more difficult. Based on what I actually DO in the game, I probably should have chosen Quant. I didn't though, I chose Oct and have tried to RP one honestly despite my abysmal PvP skills. Perhaps if players all started out TRI...nope, that doesn't RP well either. Never mind.

I think it's better to let your character develop a reputation, RP or PR based on what your character does in-game. If I do a lot of mining; earn mining medals etc, then it should open up more doors to mining activity; if I do a lot of PvP, then I should get more PvP opportunities, etc. What I DO NOT want to see is that based on the amount of Mining I've done, I'm not able to get PvP oriented ships, equipment etc or PvP missions. (yeah, I know. I'm not a PvPer and not likely to become one in the future, this is just a "for instance"). This ties in well with the other thread about Stats and I agree we need MORE stats, not less. It would work well with the idea of your opportunities being dictated by your in-game actions. I want MORE opportunites not fewer ones.

I know this amounts to taking a position based on too little info (as in what ND will actually DO/HAVE in the game, etc) but I don't want to be locked into a RP based on early-in-game choices. Of the two RP suggestions I've made (pirate faction and PvE only faction) the choices were available after a certain level was reached and the sole penalty for chosing them would be if you decided to change back to your original faction orientation (Sol to Pirate, no penalty. Pirate to Sol = reset and start over. Oct to PvE, no penalty. PvE to Oct = reset and start over).

[alphabet]

I hear where ya comin from WildBill. I agree that up until lvl6 i didnt know what the hell I was doing, what options were available and what the community was like in Jumpgate.

Ive been thinking about it and you should have to continue to choose a faction at start. But there should probably be an in-game movie or offline training on a planet or something. In this "training" you would learn what each faction is and what its capable of. Then you select the faction of your choice, hit the med chair and presto, you at your core station awakened from the surgery ready to start your role in space.

You shouldnt be able to declare what path you wish to follow until level6 or 10. Until that time you are classified as 'undeclared' and basically are in training on all the different choices available to you as a career TRI pilot (mining, fluxing, military starter missions, cargo, etc.) You are basically guided by the game system during this time to show you whats available in the Jumpgate universe. During this time you learn the back story of Jumpgate, the conflux and the history of the three systems. This is leading a noob player by the hand and getting them involved with the game, teaching them if you will, before the "whole space is dangerous and you will be pwnzerd" kicks in.

You should be able to opt out of TRI at level26 and go pirate if you choose (or another non traditional PC faction).

All this is great for noob training, however the basic premise I really want to get across, is that in order for any complex system like PR reprocussions, engangement rules, reprocussions for downing other pilots, etc., the system has to know how you want to play. This choice has to be made by the player. This choice is what tells the game system how you like to play and sets up the engagement rules with other players and aligns the player on a path of what they want to do.

If you really want Jumpgate to succeed, there has to be a way for the game to become more than a sandbox. The sandbox is great if every different playstyle is happy and content with the game. However, when one side gets discouraged, there is nothing in a sandbox that can fix that problem. The swings, trampoline and merry-go-round are all offered in other games that will appeal to those players. There needs to be more structure, but not at the risk of losing freedom. That is what I suggest. To structure the game in such a way that everyone still has the freedom to do what they want to do, but it is their choice on what to do, it is not forced on them by other players. Current Jumpgate Classic design does not allow this.

[WileE]

WildBill, that is the one great thing about PR helping to measure RP. PR is easily changed, which eliminates the whole "pay this penalty to respec".

In order for PR to hold a more active role, the concept of tags will have to change. Either their elimination all together, or the possible addition of one or two to help the PR system work.

One of the things I try to accomplish with this idea is the make it more feasible to be outside standard gameplay, without being hosed. As it stands, once you try to be a pirate, your penalty is so severe that you end up boned in short order. With a more robust PR system, you are better able to do just what you want to do.

[Wild_Bill]

Okay, I'm game. Let's see how it plays out in Jumpgate Evolution. I promise not to howl until I'm hit.

[Tim]

I love this thread. Great ideas for making a real life thing fit into a game.

Problem is, games just aren't that smart. I'd love to see something set up where the PR actually told you something useful about the pilot and his history. That'd be sweet.

I just don't see it happening, though.. there is a reason that real life is real life and games are games.

It's too bad, too.. this would be a cool addition.

I do think, though, that sticking with the current 'do your paperwork before you work for us' mentality of faction PR is as generically useful a method as we will find. At least, until artificial intelligence comes out. Course, then terminators will come get us, and that would be a bad thing.