[netburnr]

Another thread got me thinking....

We want this and that, and some people come up with RPs for their request.

But the question remains....which should be figured out first. All the details about the game development and features, or how the RP will work?

Example, RP dictates that the factions are seperated because of a second fallout, that would mean the map needs to be built a certain way, so in the case RP dictates the game design.

Another Example, Game Design makes a certain feature, and then a RP is set up to explain it, so in the case the game design dictates how the RP will go.

So which is more important to do first?

[Ambrosius]

To me, you build the best design FIRST, then you write the backstory, and then perhaps do a bit of design tweaking to make it all fit.

[daslog]

If I had it my way, I would lock the RP writers in a small room with no light until each system was coded, tested, bug fixed, and tested again.

IMO, there is NOTHING worse than haveing some writer create a backstory that isn't supported by game mechanics.

[Tritian]

I believe the game should be designed in such a way that RP of all types can flourish. That means a bare minimum of hard coded rules that shatter reality and immersion. What i mean by this might not be understood by all, so i'll try to explain with an example.

Invulnerability shields in 'safe zones' would be a good example of immersion-shattering rules that detract from RP greatly. Why would someone's shields be invulnerable in one sector and not in another? It doesn't make sense. And in my opinion, the more artificial rules tacted on to a system, the more complex that system becomes and thus open to exploits. Whether it be through client-side hacks or in-game lameness such as people in these safe zones being rude, bumping tows, 'dumping flux' or whatever the equivalent might be.

Another example is the Conflux. What a horrible implementation of an otherwise cool concept for an enemy. Making them insta-spawning client-side AI that spawn in EVERY SECTOR was a huge mistake of epic proportions. The REAL conflux would of killed TRI off long ago with that kind of ability. All they would need is a swarm in every faction sector and that would pretty much ensure that n00bs would never grow up. I dont see how the conflux could be so incompetent, as to send their most inferior 'drones' wave-after-wave deep inside enemy space over and over again. Completely killed any credibility the conflux would ever have.

Yet another example would be pirates paying their bounties out of their own pockets, like what currently happens in Jumpgate Classic. This is utterly ridiculous. what pirate would use a factional bank that removes money from their account if they kill someone from another faction, and then transfer it to the other factions bank account. The pirates would never use that bank. They'd keep their money under their pillow in their POS. The old system of no insurance made a lot more sense from an RP perspective.

TRI Enforcers were another problem. Why on earth would TRI have these uber vessels that greatly trump any of the factional military ships they have? The technology in the TRI Enforcers was light years ahead of the normal military and this made little sense to me. Why would you arm your people with inferior weapons, when they are waging a war against an enemy such as the Conflux, or other factions. So illogical.

And TRI is another huge problem with the fundamental design. A body organized to unite the three factions to rebuild civilization? What kind of lame game is this? The factions should be at WAR. Making them all buddy/buddy with basically the same equipment and a GLOBAL economy rather then a faction-based economy was a very bad decision that severely hindered RP. Games thrive on conflict, just as history has thrived on conflict. War has been the primary motivator for nearly all technological progress since the dawn of time. You do NOT build a game where everyone starts out at peace with each other. What were they thinking?

Jumpgate Classic is riddled with these illogical hard-coded rules, but it didn't stop there. Jumpgate Classic has a long history of GM's that have no idea what they were doing that have also damaged RP greatly. Such as GM_Moll who used TRI-Enforcers to crush RP on several occasions.

I hope these things are seriously re-evaluated in Jumpgate Evolution or RP will suffer greatly, as it did in Jumpgate Classic. The game should be BELIEVABLE first and foremost. Every aspect of the game, from the economy to the AI enemy need to be CREDIBLE or else it will be looked at as ridiculous. You need a good foundation for this type of game, and a good foundation starts with a fleshed out idea that is both believable and allows for the full gambit of human characteristics.

From murderers to police, pirates to merchants, factional fighters to mercs, and everything in between. Right now, Jumpgate Classic only allows for merchants and factional fighters.

[daslog]

At release, I don't think the intention was to support pirates at all. That was a player created RP that ND later added pirate tools for, Most of which do not work very well. If you are going to design a game that supports pirates, then it should be incorporated into your design documents right from the start.

[Karash]

Game Design is the heart of the game. RP can always be built around that.

[Wild_Bill]

Hmmm.. well since I was one of the folks designing a backstory to support a game feature, I'd have to go with that. You figure out what features you want to have in the game, whether it's large chunks of unreg between the factions, a pirate RP or varing levels of security/danger. After you have decided what you want, you then figure out how to deliver it, then and only then, you come up with a story that ties it all together and make it consistent.

In spite of our disagreement in many areas Tritian makes a series of very strong and good points. Too much in Jumpgate Classic simply makes no sense whatsoever. Too much damage was done by some piss-poor GM's (yeah, I know, if I'm so hot why ain't I a GM?), poor planning and as daslog points out, a poorly developed RP demanded by the players (which covers both the current mining dominated economic system and pirates/bounties).

[Lordopic]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

To me, you build the best design FIRST, then you write the backstory, and then perhaps do a bit of design tweaking to make it all fit.

What he said.

[dahalb]

Its a mix of both. Basic design decisions need to be made first like is this an FPS or an RTS? Will it have real physics? etc. Then RP starts to infiltrate the design and shape it. RP is also based off some design decisions just as some design is based off RP creations.

[Ambrosius]

For example, for Jumpgate Evolution it seems to me that ND should have decided where in time they were going to place the new game and whether there were any MAJOR historical events (e.g. Conflux were conquered . . . or Conflux destroyed everything). Then design you game, and back-fill the storyline details.

[dailatron]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

For example, for Jumpgate Evolution it seems to me that ND should have decided where in time they were going to place the new game and whether there were any MAJOR historical events (e.g. Conflux were conquered . . . or Conflux destroyed everything). Then design you game, and back-fill the storyline details.

And whether or not there was outright factional war meaning any non faction ship was game (no factional bounty) to be shot and killed once inside enemy space, with neutral factions (hyp/Amananth) to become the trading factions. I so hate non Octs.

[Lordopic]

Sorry had time to think about this more.

I agree that the dev’s should design the game first but doesn’t this then mix into the games story/ RP you cant really design anything unless you know what your designing it for.

What I mean is ok im going to design some ships for a faction/team/player controlled whatever and they are, so what are they like? Warmongers, Religious Zealots, etc, hang on Im not sure lets look at the story/RP for said party.
You need to know what you have to play with before you can make the ideas come to life, not talking about game mechanics but the fluff.

So I do think that you need a good story to base your design on, but id rather see them have this in place then design the game then work in the RP. Which with any luck will draw from a good back story and actually mean something,