[Eraser55]

Its all bout hype and addvertisement. thats how you get ppl to play. I refuse to believe that all great games sell and make money.

[Radi]

Originally Posted by Awen

Having just played it, I can assure you that it is indeed a space combat game.

With respect to World of Warcraft, the game while not popular in this forum has many solid game mechanics as well as design features. It's wildly popular for a reason. It's easy to learn how to play, difficult to master and you can either spend a half hour or 8 hours playing without feeling as though you are completely and utterly lost. I go through spurts myself of hating and loving the game, but simply put, I keep re-subscribing and I am a difficult gamer to keep happy. So that says alot.

Players in WoW are kept being happy mainly by:

a) new quests - which most of the is just a template kill 100000 x creatures
b) levels, new skills, new more powerful items
c) new expansion packs which basicly are items a and b

When you think about it, game is shallow. You are basicly given no choice. Besides maybe PvP. But still, all you do mostly, is do quests in different areas and move on.

In Jumpgate, while the mission system wasn't better, game mechanics allowed for so much more. We had EEA, factional warfare, pie-rats, civ wars, Rollio and hunting for Rollio, kill stealing, spamming, fighting vs multiple pilots, hauling uranium etc. So many to mention.

You can argue that, the same actions can be achieved in WoW. And you can be right.

But there is difference between Jumpgate and WoW.

In Jumpgate, it was just me and my personal skills doing those actions. Not some item or level of my character. In the end, it was the person that made the diffrence. And that is why Jumpgate is better in my view.


"Welcome to your next life. There is nothing you can't do."

[Diver012]

Ive been thinking about this entire WoW vs Jumpgate thing, and heres my 2 cents..

If Jumpgate Classic was a game originally designed by lets say, Blizzard, or Sony, or what ever, does anyone here think that it would still be around today? One of the failings of Jumpgate Classic that really upset a large number of players, was the lack of support and content enhancement.

For a very long time there was a sole programmer responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of Jumpgate Classic. While teams of other players concentrated on Auto Assult, and War Monger ect.. Jumpgate Classic went for years without any major enhancements. With the release of Ep2, there was major dissapointment and dissolusion with Jumpgate with what was promised vs what was actually released. I was personally disapoinited what little enhancments we saw, and how dissapointed those enhancements were.. example being Player owned stations.

With that being said, look any succesful game out there right now. It doesnt matter if its WoW, EVE what ever. There are teams and teams of programmers, constantly upgrading, enhancing, improving gameplay. New content is constantly being added all the time.

Lets face it. A lot of players left simply because they got board with Jumpgate. New we see new life being breathed into a game we all se as having some massive potential.

Over the years we have all had our own ideas on what we dreamed Jumpgate could have developed into had it been given the proper chance. Now suddenly that chance is here and things are starting to get interesting. Eveyone has developed such passionate feelings on what they would like and would not like to see in game. Ive already seen coments like, well I refuse to play if they do this or that... I think statements like that are seriously putting the cart before the horse.

I have played WoW. For about a year I enjoyed that game with a group of friends. From everything I have heard, and seen thus far, I seriously doubt Jumpgate Evolution is going to be WoW in space. I swear if I see a damn elf or an Orc in space flying around in a Tow, im gonna hang up my flight career for good! I just cant imagine Jumpgate Evolution having the same type of feel that WoW or Eve had. It doesnt have that kind of background or base at all.

I dont think its wrong to post ideas based on what other games such as WoW and EVE are doing. If it doesnt fit the mold that has become Jumpgate, it simply wont work and that will become painfully obvious in Beta. There are already people planning on proving how bad an idea it is to have "Safe Zones" But these people havent even seen the gameplay first hand to be able to judge just how the rules and reactions are going to be yet. I think people are just being a little protective of what they want Jumpgate Evolution to be for them. Theres nothing wrong with that. The entire idea of this community and the communication that ND has shown I think has already set ND aside from most other communities. They are listening. They are watching.

My hope is that Beta will be not just a stress test of server load and balance, but a test of many of the ideas that we are communicating here right now.
Lets not get all bent out of shape because of comments made before we have even seen a video of what the game play is going to look like. Lets not let some of the neglect the game as suffered from in the past, ruin what a wonderful opportunity has been presented to us.

Most game developers wouldnt give the player the base the time of day to interject their personal opinions and/or ideas on what direction a game should go. They simply release it, watch the money role in, then plan an expansion pack. How many companies do you know of asked its players what they wanted to see in next major installment of a game?

[netburnr]

Originally Posted by Diver012

My hope is that Beta will be not just a stress test of server load and balance, but a test of many of the ideas that we are communicating here right now.

Driver, keep hoping bud. Awen already said in another post that they plan on hammering everything out, then Beta testing for balance of equipment ships. Not to test ideas, not to test implementations of the various systems, not to allow us to force them into changing things.

It was said that they want to release the game sometime in the third quarter of 2008. If the game is pre-alpha now, then thats a bit of time for Alpha development, putting the ideas they want in, creating the game, then Beta will be only a couple (~2?) months after alpha, and then its done. Over, no more ability to bring up ideas and problems. At that point its either pay to play, or quit forever.

A Lot of us want to make sure that ND gets the Alpha right, because we know we won't have enough time during beta for them to change major decisions.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Radi

In Jumpgate, while the mission system wasn't better, game mechanics allowed for so much more. We had EEA, factional warfare, pie-rats, civ wars, Rollio and hunting for Rollio, kill stealing, spamming, fighting vs multiple pilots, hauling uranium etc. So many to mention.

That's the core question I have at the moment. Will we play through the story like someone does in WoW, or will we be the story like we were in Jumpgate Classic?

[Diver012]

Originally Posted by netburnrol

Driver, keep hoping bud. Awen already said in another post that they plan on hammering everything out, then Beta testing for balance of equipment ships. Not to test ideas, not to test implementations of the various systems, not to allow us to force them into changing things.

It was said that they want to release the game sometime in the third quarter of 2008. If the game is pre-alpha now, then thats a bit of time for Alpha development, putting the ideas they want in, creating the game, then Beta will be only a couple (~2?) months after alpha, and then its done. Over, no more ability to bring up ideas and problems. At that point its either pay to play, or quit forever.

A Lot of us want to make sure that ND gets the Alpha right, because we know we won't have enough time during beta for them to change major decisions.

Well if thats true then thats true. We still have our voices here. They are still reading through the forums and we are letting them know how we feel. I think what might be a good idea at this point is for them to release some in-game footage on what they are planning and talking about. A picture speaks a thousand words afterall..

[Golgath]

Originally Posted by Bingofuel

WoW is an excelent example of well designed and implemented game mechanics. Particulary in the area of PvP.

said the Rogue

(not meant as a flame)

[Eraser55]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

That's the core question I have at the moment. Will we play through the story like someone does in WoW, or will we be the story like we were in Jumpgate Classic?

Imo thats what most mmorpg designers, except some few seem to miss out.

Most try to come up with content to keep players playing, so they dont get bored of old stuff. Thats fine. Im always up for a new ship or new modx, we got many cool stuff over the years in Jumpgate that came later.

But most forget how to use the players as content. IMO any game that is calling it self a mmorpg, witch deserves my respect should try to make the players the most important content for other players.

This will surely fail in most todays "mmos" because they are designed so that there almoust doesn't need to be other players around for you to enjoy the game in some way.

This annoys me very much, because when I sign up for a mmorpg I expect to interact mostly with other players. I dont excpect to be playing a singleplayer game with all its cons and pros.

Over time mmo players will grow and expect more and the MMo industri will notice this and will start creating real fullblodded mmorpg games.

Im just suprised and annoyed that this still hasn't happend. That most people dont know that a mmo should be about playing with or against other people.

There is still a big blur in the rules of defining a mmorpg, thats why the industri can get away with creating a game that feels like you are playing a singleplayer game with millions of others, call it a mmorpg, and put a monthly price on it.

Would you pay montly price to play Battlefield or Counterstrike online? comeon ppl, expect and demand more! its ur money.

[Istanbul]

actually, most MMOs DO require other players for just about everything but 'farming' (i.e. sitting there killing lower leveled mobs for hours to get their loot in order to sell it). However, they either don't have PvP, don't require PvP, or have different servers with varying levels of PvP. Many people do like playing through a story with a group of friends. In fact, I do enjoy that myself. However, a game where I truly make an impact on the universe appeals to me even more. IMO Jumpgate Classic doesn't even have this. W/O GM involvement, the only thing a person can really impact to a noticable extent is equipment stocks.

[Eraser55]

Originally Posted by Istanbul

actually, most MMOs DO require other players for just about everything but 'farming' (i.e. sitting there killing lower leveled mobs for hours to get their loot in order to sell it). However, they either don't have PvP, don't require PvP, or have different servers with varying levels of PvP. Many people do like playing through a story with a group of friends. In fact, I do enjoy that myself. However, a game where I truly make an impact on the universe appeals to me even more. IMO Jumpgate Classic doesn't even have this. W/O GM involvement, the only thing a person can really impact to a noticable extent is equipment stocks.

yes, but playing through a story with few friends doesnt rly cut it to call it a mmorpg.

wow, did you play Jumpgate? I think you totally missed the point, because every ship is another player. And most of these players have the freedom to be what they wanted to be. So in a way, Jumpgate had thousands of things you could impact. these things were other peoples characters and roleplay. Imo that was the coolest thing.