[Algore]

All theoretical of course.
If one side is involved in a civ war that it cannot win, lets face it civ wars are rarely won, is it reasonable that if one side quits to become peaceful poets, that the other side "let them off?"

Discuss

[Ambrosius]

LOL, now the flame war begins about whether a squad disbanding is a "win" condition.

{Shrug} . . . IMO, pursuing it further is just OOC bad blood, which is always a bad thing. But if you think there's a way (honestly) to continue the fight IC, then I guess that would work. I just don't see how.

I'm just kind of surprised by the whole thing, and wondering what happened.

[Elmdor]

Meh, the IC civ war never existed. I think 10 months is long enough for this OOC bull**** that has happened to continue.

[spork]

Guess it depends what the pilots actually do after they have disbanded. If they really do change their playstyle (or join existing squads), I think a clean slate would be appropriate (or a "change of slate" matching to the existing squad they join). Whereas if they just reform under a new name and do all the same things with all the same people...then nothing really ever changed.

If Rollio returned, I wouldn't shoot him on sight. I'd give him a (cautious and guarded) chance to be a non-ass.

[ELPIRATA]

I would of hope they stop that non-sense and not necesarily disband, if they were Quantar's hope.... it has ceased to exist, even recreating it as a place holder has no sense.

Also, I would think that all players (well, some) deserve a 2nd chance, so I would give them the benefit of the doubt and see what happens from this point forward.

And last...

One thing we in OEC learned about forums, it doesnt matter how much you try to reason with the enemy, they wont get it, so we were ordered to not post and so we did. Those with the rank to do it, would use them forums to announce stuff, not discuss nor participate in flame wars.

I can be shown in one small example... EEA lol.

For the EEA team, they were fighting OEC because they sided with the sols (not sure which squad was atm), and we were right cause EEA had many bad apples (aka pirates on them). Nobody will ever agree (note without 'h') to that, and as such, is best to avoid the subject.

The current flame wars on posts is as stupid as the B******* that Elm mentions. You keep adding to the fire, it gets out of hand, it gets personal, totally stupid OOC and people end not playing anymore.

I would suggest to use this incident and evaluate future ones. Avoid allowing flame wars, and as hard as it may be, if the Factional government calls a cease fire or temporal peace (as you know there wont be ever a long lasting peace) then use the time wisely to rebuild and repair yourselves.

ELP

[Wild_Bill]

Algore, and others of course, how do you win ANY war in Jumpgate? The only ones that were ever truely "won" or "lost" were the GM sponsored "Beacon Wars" where the number of tuned beacons over a measured length of time determined who won or lost. Or then again the WOWs had clear enough goals and parameters to determine who won or lost.

Civ wars or any other kind cannot be won because unlike the previous examples, there are no criteria for win or lose. While it may have a specific act that starts it, most wars just finally die out for lack of enterest. I see the disbanding of a squad as a more than sufficient example of a "loss" and the opposing squad would be the winner by default.

Perhaps the mythetical "Mil Patch" will change things. Perhaps not

[Algore]

Couldn't agree less Bill.
You are mistaking GM sponsored "events" with REAL ingame wars.
Some wars are not meant to be won, just sustained like that of factionalist v factionalist.
Some wars occour because of an action and are usually won or lost with reparations, or by one side simply surrendering and the other side accepting.
Civ wars are rarely won by either side, they merely drag on until the monotony induces an mutual acceptance on both sides to just "move on".

Years ago civ wars were regulary won and lost because the agressor usually had more power than those they declared civ war on. Eventually the weaker would surrender. They simply couldn't sustain the onslaught on their trading ships, and it made more sense to pay reparations.

Now however due to the balance of power being held in the hands of few a civ war tends to be a **** swinging exercise with neither squad wanting to budge.

As boss of the longest surviving pvp squad it makes little sense for me to match myself up with an evenly matched foe in a civ war. Especially with the likes of a major squad of another faction. It makes my life more awkward, at the same time as my adversaries.
If a civ war does develop I usually expect it to last a few "hits" and then mutually agree that's it's continuence is not a good thing with the power(s) that be on the other side.

The problem lies therein, if there is no agreement after a few "hits", things drag on.

For those that have experienced them, there are clear winners in all kinds of wars. Sometimes everyone can be a winner, sometimes not everyone can agree to allow that to happen........................ .........

[GrimGriz]

You left out the most common result of civ-wars that I've seen, 'one side decided getting civved all the time isn't any fun and quits jumpgate.' I'm not sure if you'd call that a win for the other team tho...

[Ambrosius]

Frankly, one side getting outnumbered and beaten (while HG) repeatedly has resulted (in my observation) in more TRI-C accounts than civ wars.

[Alibaba]

Well, QH shot me down once, so I can only assume they were all banned for cheating.

[Istanbul]

I was griefed from the game by Unemployment. As soon as it's banned, i think i'll take a chance at returning ~.^

[vorlon31]

Ive not managed to get the flux to quit yet.

[Gent30]

Originally Posted by Algore

All theoretical of course.
If one side is involved in a civ war that it cannot win, lets face it civ wars are rarely won, is it reasonable that if one side quits to become peaceful poets, that the other side "let them off?"

Discuss

All theoretical, of course, wanna continue? or shall we move on?