[GrimGriz]

I recall the Quantar mining bonus, and I wonder now that mining is meaningful and somewhat profitable (from what I've heard) if that mining bonus isn't an unfair advantage. I know Solrains get slightly more cargo space, but is there another factional bonus to balance it out? Ship designs aside, do the other factions get any bonuses that I've forgotten? If not, what bonuses could they/should they get to balance it out?

[Radi]

10 min AB for oct ships with single engine.

[GrimGriz]

Ship designs aside Radi. That could easily be discounted by the whole 'in general oct ships are slower' thing.

[Radi]

Fair enough.

[spork]

I don't see where ship design can be seperated from overall factional balance. Everything is interrelated.

Oct/Sol ships can use big ECMs and IJs due to extra power, which can be quite an advantage against today's fleets/scouters which use LF/MF a lot with only 20-24k radars. The nix gets a 4th missile which translates to an extra HR, one of the best in space, or to a DT giving 20 mins of AB. The Raven is the fastest combat ship. The Tens has the extra FF. The Sols/Octs have a substantial profile advantage, making ammo (which they also have the power to use) much more useful to them against Quants than vise-versa. Extra shielding is better than extra armor (Sols vs Octs). But extra armor is better than nothing (Octs vs Quants). Both Sol/Oct HFs get a 5th gun a useable profile.

Both Oct/Sol HMs can be used as battletows (though moreso the Octs) since they both get a sz5 shield, whereas no Quant ship can be used as an effective battletow (if one has never looked closely at the armor/shield stats of the possible battletow ships, one might be surprised to learn how weak the Quant versions are as combat vessels). But, I think I recall someone posting that the Quant HM with 6:2:2 +mining bonus digs about twice as fast as the Oct's 5:5.

So I'm not trying to make a case saying the combat fleets are terribly imbalanced. On the contrary, I think they are at the best balance we've ever had. Though the Quant fleet is still a tad outclassed since we've had the 1 area of total superiority we enjoyed, topspeed, stolen by the Raven. I'm just saying that fleets do have a big impact on overall factional balance.

Non-ship related balace issues might include border sectors. Quants have 3 border sectors adjacent to 6 sectors. Sols have 3 border sectors adjacent to 3 sectors. Octs have 2 border sectors adjacent to 5 sectors (counting EE).

Quants have 28 native beacons. Octs have 21. Sols have 22.

The Quants now make practically no best-in-class equipment for combat ships, though virtually all the 2nd best stuff is home grown.

Regarding cargo, I could the Sol's cargo bonus on the large ships becomming more in line with the Quant's mining bonus of 20%.

[GrimGriz]

I don't see where ship design can be seperated from overall factional balance. Everything is interrelated.

From the angle that ship design differences should balance each other. i.e. octs armor and ab vs sol shielding and quantminer lack of defence for faster yields.

It could be something as simple as octs get a bonus to payouts for combat missions and sols a bonus to cargo missions - to balance that quants can make much more money mining.

[Icefox]

Honestly, I find it a bit rediculous and unfair that the Sol freighter doesn't have a cargo bonus that reflects Solrain's "primary" interest. But that is just me. So ditto Spork on the idea that something similar to the Quant mining bonus but for more superior cargo on something like our frieghter would be nice. We already have that cargo bonus on our smaller ships, which is good. So why not our large? That should be what matters even more to a race of traders.

But anyhow, I tend to agree with you GrimGriz, though spork has some points too. Hmm. I'll have to think a bit about this one.

[SingleShot]

I've always been under the impression that it worked like this.

Quants got the mining bonus

Octs got 10 mins of AB, or over a minute of FF

Sols got the best combat ships in the universe.

[Radi]

Then why you havent reseted sol, SS?

[SingleShot]

The challenge?

Plus I'd lose my kills. It's hard to statwhore without kills, isn't it?

Also, until recently the sols didn't have many terribly fun ships to fly. As amazingly uber as the tens always will be, it's not really fun.
The reboosted invader gives the statwhore in me an incredible desire to fly it, though.

[Argyris]

Afaik there already is a payout bonus on cargo missions for sols whereas Octs get more exp (and credits?) for combat missions than the lesser factions (but i'm not really sure about it).

Concerning ships i agree with SS: the Vader is a really excellent MF (luckily only few smurfs know how to fly it properly :P). Although it has almost the same equipment options as a Chiro and is slighty slower it has a nasty profile, which makes it quite hard to hit and the sz3 shield makes it even harder to crack. Regarding fighter-class i prefer the Nix to any other. It's always amusing when a tensy shoots you to armor having only few shields left and tries to finish the job instead of running in time

[QrazyKermi]

Originally Posted by SingleShot

The reboosted invader gives the statwhore in me an incredible desire to fly it, though.

Are you talking about the initial MF redesigns, or did something else get tweaked in the last 9 months or so?

[SingleShot]

Originally Posted by QrazyKermi

Are you talking about the initial MF redesigns, or did something else get tweaked in the last 9 months or so?

I can't give you a timeline on this, sorry.

-LF/MF things happen. Impeller becomes teh win. (Before, it was the engine that pissed me off to no end when I was an oct noob in my appy. I wanted a faster engine than the pusher, but the impeller was just as slow!)

-The invader had 4 guns, as it did pre-patch

-At some point the Invader was nerfed to 2:2:1 guns. I think it had a TM ratio in the mid 80s, but I'm not sure if it debuted with that mass or it was nerfed a bit. I think it was nerfed along with the gun nerf.

-Sometime later the invader was given it's 4th gun back (2:2:1:1), and it got a mass boost. It basically has the same TM as the intensity now. (low 90s, iirc)

Generally people recognized that the 3 gun/high mass invader was a bit weak, but the whole "boost it's mass AND guns signifigantly" was seen as a bit over the top. That happened anyway. A vader with the same firepower and TM (with better pitch than) a tensy hurts a bit.