[Radi]

Probly Moll saw what we (Jumpgate community) thought about her or someone told her.

[fluid]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You know, the reason we even started using JGW is because they didn't want to have to spend to much time moderating the JOSSH forums. But then they moderate us on 3rd party websites instead? That makes no sense at all.

Posts like this is why the reputation system exists.

Seriously though, imagine how much better this game would be if they would put their effort into RP events or allocate more funding to the development "team" instead of trolling for unfriendly posts on 3rd party sites (in a sandbox of all places). Aubrey has acknowledged that the post was inappropriate, and that was very noble to parley the issue and concede defeat rather than stir up more grief than was necessary. But in the end, the amount of resources that were consumed by Themis and NetDevil to verify and accomplish this is questionable.

[Tim]

Questionable to say the least. Granted, it's easier to troll forums than work up RP's and such, but even so, as you say, if you have limited manpower, why spend it in this fashion?

And I would also second your opinion of Aubrey's handling of this issue. He is certainly the better party on this one.

Another overly heavy swing of the ban stick.

[Jump]

Well, I can answer your question Wild_Bill. But if you know me like some people in this game do, you'll soon learn that I say what I have to say and I say it with complete and total honesty. And I’ll say it without regard to how others might feel about it, or me. The truth is the truth and I would prefer not to speak at all, rather than say what people want to here. So, since you ask, and since you guys won't heed my desire to move on, from this mess, I will give my opinion and you won’t like it. And as a long time webmaster and forum moderator I believe it to be an expert one.

Had Aubrey made that post here, this would never have happened. Why you ask? Because such a post, placed on this website, would have been moderated, and the author would have gotten a PM from me. But he never would have done that here since he knows how I feel about such nonsense and I have no Sandbox.

If I had a sandbox, it would certainly not be viewable to non members.

If I had a sandbox, you would most certainly have to click on a user agreement to gain access.

If I had a sandbox, the user agreement would make you declare non affiliation with a zillion entities and their affiliates. Most notably game publishers and developers.

If I had a sandbox, I would be sweeping the sand that got out back into the sandbox on a daily basis.

Aubrey, what you said was wrong in a public setting. You already know that. I know it, but I'm afraid some peeps don't realize that. Moll did a crappy Job and never understood this community. But she was a human being and she was just doing her job. What you said was also not like you, and definitely not representative of your nature. You’re a good guy and a hard-working community leader. But you had a bad moment and made a slip and no one was there to get your back. That's the hard cold truth of it.

It may seem fun to put up a website and post away. But in reality, your postings are published works, wether it is fiction or fact, it requires responsibility by it's caretakers and users. Everything left on it for public viewing is subject to libel. Intent, or situation has nothing to do with it. In reality, facts have nothing to do with it. When you post something for public viewing, you are publishing your words and are subject to libel. You are subject to interpretation of your intent by those that don't and never will know you as you are. If you get sued, it will not be about what your intent was in posting. It will be about wether or not the plaintiffs perceived intent, of the defendants actions are real, and require remedy.

To answer your question WB, everything you post on this site is visible (except private squad forums) to non members. Wether they are lurkers, search engines, potential members or Themis employees, I have no idea, nor do I care. I can assure you, if you slip here, you will not fall far. I, or one of my moderators, will get your back. We will clean up your mess for you. You may not like it when it happens, but these are moderated forums. You see what happens with the alternative. This isn’t a game, it’s a community that talks about a game. And with all communities come responsibility and order.

Now we can lock all these forums down so that they are not viewable to non members. But then we will receive constant complaints from the lurkers who are too lazy to type their name and password in. Plus that won't attract any new members. It's a remedy for the death of a website to close off public viewing to all but the most sensitive areas, such as a sandbox.

Now, I’ve said my peace. I don’t care what anyone’s opinions of my statements are. I’m not asking for help with reality. It is what it is. And what it is right now is a knee jerk reaction to a knee jerk reaction. It’s one big fur ball that could have been prevented through care and responsible actions by many parties involved.

I’m not quitting Jumpgate over this as that would be silly. If you want me to sign a petition, I will. If you want me to endorse an apology letter, I will. If you want me to shut up, get your own damn website.

Jump

[Regan]

Jump is a wise, wise man and you kiddies should read his post and honestly listen to what he has to say. Aubrey was strong enough and bold enough of a man to acknowledge what he did was wrong. Do you honestly think quitting this game will make any difference. I watch all the "ex" players troll these boards, JGW, and JOSSH forums all day long. I have to wonder are you regretting that you decided to jump on the "i'm quitting wagon?" You can say that you are standing up for Aubrey by quitting and you can give the i hate Themis' line, but are you helping anything? No. Why you ask? Aubrey was excited to get back into Jumpgate, why not help him get back in by supporting him and doing things like Jump suggests. Start a petition, help with apology letters; do something that matters! I myself, have managed to dodge the bullets that hurt you other folks regarding Themis, so of course i probably don't understand your hatred for the company. But is letting Jumpgate, the game you've played for years, the game that has bonded you with so many people world wide, die the answer? IMO, Jumpgate has a lot of life left in it. Show Istvan some respect. He works hard for this game everyday. GM_Moll isn't around in the Jumpgate community anymore, so forget her. Move on. GM_Khronos and Istvan and the others now on the team have great plans for the game. They aren't giving up. Why are you? And if you are honestly dissatisfied with Jumpgate and all it is, why do you take time to troll the boards and give your comments? I don't know. To me, I think a big misunderstanding has occured and i think positive action, rather than negative actions, such as quitting, would be a lot more effective.

Aubrey ~ If you want me to sign anything let me know... I'm here for you.


Radi ~ Since you don't open your pm's Even mcbrmy hated to admit that he misses you too. I have the screenshot to prove it.

Leonard, Vibe, and everyone else that's slowly pulling out, even you Sephiroth, you're missed as well!

Luff ya alls!
~ Regan

[Istanbul]

Amen to what regan said... I don't know anything about themis really (my only experience w/ them has actually been positive O.O). But if Aubrey DOES have any desire to play Jumpgate again, I think that if he made a sincere apology letter to Themis for the last two lines or whatever of the infamous post, I think we could drum up a lot of support for his reinstatement.

[Wild_Bill]

I asked and was answered. I thank you Jump for your fair and honest response as well as your offer to clean up my messes. 31 years in a wheelchair has taught me we all need, and must accept, help from time to time to get to our destination or accomplish our goals. I have known for most of my 53 years the value and truth of the phrase "bare is brotherless back". I also appreciate the implied warning that this is a public area and that no one posting here, or any other public area, has any expectation of privacy, security or protection.

Regan, I have nothing but praise and respect for Jump. I am not a beta pilot, or a Test Pilot or an EP, I got here in October of '01 right after retail and the longest time I have been out of the game was the four weeks I spent in the hospital last fall. I have been TRI-C twice due to credit card billing problems. I was there during 3DO's term and the totality of Themis' reign. No one has to tell me about a lot of things because I was there, wrote a good bit of it down and remember it fairly well. I remember a lot of the evil that was done and who did it. None of it made me quit. I've never "burned out" or had to "take a vacation" from the game simply because with my RL the game IS my vacation.

Overall the game shows steady improvement. It's not the same game I started 3 plus years ago. In most ways it is better. In the ways it is NOT better, nearly all can be laid at the feet of NetDevil and their hired lackeys and agents from Themis Group. If you were there, you remember them. If you weren't there, I am not the one to school you. From time to time I have, and will continue to, publically disagree with decisions made by ND or TG or their agents. To the best of my rememberance I have not publically disrespected anyone in, or connected to this game. Nor do I intend to do so now or in the future.

So again Jump, I wish to thank you. Much that you have done, and continue to do, has increased my enjoyment of the game and the gaming experience. I've had little in-game contact with you, but perhaps that will change in the future as well. Here you have created a civilized place to discuss and discourse and I thank you for that as well.

[Romulus]

Very good posts Jump and Regan! I think it was all said in these two posts. Aubrey you did the honorable thing and fessed up to what was said and excepted responsibility for it. My interaction from you in the past has always been as a calm headed pilot so this was out of character for you. An apology letter and campaign from the active pilots should go a long way toward reconciliation.

For those that want to quit on this. You will be missed but I personally and Humbly think you are leaving for the wrong reason.

[ELPIRATA]

Id like to add...

I have personal experiences with both GMO and GMK, and these show that while Themis has had some people who have been doing it wrong for Jumpgate... there are others that have worked their butts off for us, like GMK and GMO (while brief) and now RazorX (we dont see him much but he does work).

I personally PMed GMK once, I made the mistake of PMing him right after an in-game incident that got me really pissed off, and I used bad words (F types) and if I remember well, I had them with huge tags, so you can imagine how he could have reacted to my PM.

It took me some time to realize that it wasnt his fault that people wouldnt understand official RP and played it out in a way that affected me that bad, and I didnt gave him time to answer me.. I PMed him again, I think 2 days later, and apologized for my big mishap.

I think what Im trying to say is that we talk many times about Themis doing this and that and how bad it is done, but the truth is that not all of them are like this. I think that one of the big problems of JGW forums is that it encourages the free use of profanities and it even goes further, and this is wrong.

A good community website (or forums for that matter) would be the one that allows you to express how you feel, but then helps you realize that using bad words and other threats arent the way to go to resolve problems, and it does this via moderation. I dont know Aubrey that much, but I know he's a good guy after all, and as he admits his guilt on this... I just wish you were able to just rectify that same day or a couple days later on that same thread. Maybe this way, it could have been seen as one of those moments we really go nuts.

I also agree that quitting over this... is not fair. I can understand loyalty to people, and I can understand about the 'privacy' of a sandbox, but as much as your being loyal to Aubrey... what does it say about how loyal are you to the rest of us? I mean, havent we been (the ones, mostly, that have kept their faith in Jumpgate via non-quitting) examples of loyalty as well? If I quit.. will you quit over me? The truth is.. quitting over Aubrey is not the real reason why you're doing it.

If you dont give a crap, is just because you have been feeling like leaving perhaps, but dont atribute that to loyalty to a cause, you are being GREATLY disloyal to me and those others that do keep playing.

Now the questions remains... who will be humble enough to admit it and return?

ELP

[Jump]

They don't have the expectation of privacy in that sandbox over there. It's left open for public viewing. Maybe the point wasn't emphasised enough in my point. And I agree, GM_K is doing a great job and I don't hold him accountable for his bosses.

My problem is with overall management by the organization and the fact that Themis asked the community for money to advertise on Warcry. Telling everyone they had determined it to be the best deal but not disclosing that it was also and affiliate, having the same owner as themselves. That is why I quit Warcry back in the day. Integrity of purpose is everything to me.

If Razor_X was able to clean up his mess, and become a GM. Then surely Aubrey can clean up his and be re-instated. Sometimes, life is simple and not so complex.

[spork]

I still enjoy the game as is, in spite of ND and TG's past and current bone headedness.

If you enjoy the game, stay. If not, quit. Aub's situation and opinion about how it was handled are irrelivant to my gameplay.

And Regan, as for why people stay around the forums and lurk...beats me. I called them all sociopaths here after one of them tried to call us people who still enjoy the game that.