[Ambrosius]

Actually we had great numbers with fewer ship-types, far poorer ship balance, and much more civ-ripping. I'm pretty sure it's the constant whining that has caused the mass exodus.

[Algore]

I'd say about 40% of the EU guys that came accross left for one reason and one reason only:
The crap economy designed and asked for by a few, for a few.

Regards
Al

[SingleShot]

Beats CPs.

[Ambrosius]

Originally Posted by Algore

I'd say about 40% of the EU guys that came accross left for one reason and one reason only:
The crap economy designed and asked for by a few, for a few.

What's a "crap economy?" As far as I can tell there's not phenomal over-supply, but for the most part, people have what they need to fly.

Is it the US culture that despised and decried the EU habit of stripping stations and selling goods at private markets? That's hardly a design issue.

I'll agree with you that econ had something to do with the exodus, but for entirely different reasons:

1) Farming made wealth accumulation a sport, and actual wealth completely meaningless.

2) One every station was (over)stocked with all the equipment anyone could ever need or want, haulers had nothing to do but "Profit Runs." That simply became uninteresting after a while.

But (IMO) spork's list nailed most of the major issues, though he omitted the long period of time when the US JOSSH was down, including the market data -- which drove away many more haulers.

Why EU players did not "stick" was (again IMO) largely cultural. While all was spun as a merger of equals, the cuture was somewhat dictated by the US server -- including the (legal) prohibition on volunteer GMs and the resulting RP void.

[vorlon31]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

Why EU players did not "stick" was (again IMO) largely cultural. While all was spun as a merger of equals, the cuture was somewhat dictated by the US server -- including the (legal) prohibition on volunteer GMs and the resulting RP void.

Interesting points. Having come from the EU server it has to be said the initial feelings of being an invader on the wws have never really gone, even after a year has passed. Despite the places being called the same and many familiar pilot names there is still something slightly alien that nags at the back of the mind.

We lost all our history, RP and character back grounds with the merger and got nothing as compensation. Theres been no modification of anything in the game to make us feel at home, its basically - "this is the way its done here, like it or .."

Even when it comes to pilots, the EU had its GM's and OPS who were players first and did what they did for the love of the game and what happened to them with the merger - auto enlistment into the Test pilot program where their skills and knowledge could be used to help drive the new WWS server forward along side traditional us pilots? - not as far as I can see.

There were many things on the EU that could of come with us, but nothing did and that possibly alienated a lot of people too.

Also, it still feels so OOC here, so "clubby". As an example, go look at the medals of any long time US player then compare them to any former eu player. Youll see loads of medals for OOC events on the us players stats, because thats what your GM's did here. They ran OOC events, fight clubs etc etc. On the EU the GM's did more story rp's and events were RP bassed with far less shineys because they were more IC (IMO).

Who knows though, the new GM is in town and chief club meister GMK is gone... time will tell.

The wws is still the us server with different letters, nothing server side adapted to the "new" combined jobby. The spin was good, but as soon as we subbed.. the welcoming arms turned to scornefull looks and a big stick.

Of course this could just be me feeling like this, parallel universe jumping does that to you I guess.

[spork]

Originally Posted by vorlon31

We lost all our history, RP and character back grounds with the merger and got nothing as compensation. Theres been no modification of anything in the game to make us feel at home, its basically - "this is the way its done here, like it or .."

I agree, but I don't see how you could possibly merge such divergent RP backstories or economies. If the US server closed and I went to the EU, I would not expect it to change for me (this actually did happen more or less during the big forum blow up here). I mean you just cannot reconcile stuff like the Thrice Seven either being TRI heros and being Conflux Sentients. You cannot reconcile the Books of Hamalzah being valid and being directly denied all validity.

Even when it comes to pilots, the EU had its GM's and OPS who were players first and did what they did for the love of the game and what happened to them with the merger - auto enlistment into the Test pilot program where their skills and knowledge could be used to help drive the new WWS server forward along side traditional us pilots? - not as far as I can see.

That's making some pretty major assumptions that they weren't already in the program, that they weren't welcome to join the program, and that they wanted to be in it. I refuse to make any assumption about it one way or the other since I honestly don't know.

There were many things on the EU that could of come with us, but nothing did and that possibly alienated a lot of people too.

Such as? (Honest question, not being a smartass.)

Also, it still feels so OOC here, so "clubby".

Couldn't agree with you more. The US has always been very light on roleplaying and very heavy on space flight sim GAME players. And the RPers have often been in a very small clique around the events GM (moreso during Moll than Omega or Kronos). I wish it was not that way, but it always has been. We can blame Themis all we want for a great many evils, and it isn't going to change the mindset of most of the players...or the amount of GM time that Jumpgate can afford to buy. And I think OOC events are easier to pull off and more visible on such limited time. The best RP things that have been cool here have been player initiated and GM supported, not the other way around. Not saying I like it, but that's just my observation.

[GrimGriz]

You can say stuff didn't come with you during the merger, but your attitude about gear and stripping did, and your actions because of that attitude forever changed the face of the us server. It did become the WWS in that respect.

[Radi]

Heh funny really. Istvan was a hero once. Now he is slowly becoming something else. What is next? A dev that killed Jumpgate?

Maybe for EU guys that might not matter, but for US players he is the best thing that happened to Jumpgate. He changed Jumpgate single-handedly. We have mixed fleets in PvP (more or less but it is there). Econ workers have something to do (work with me on this one). Fluxers can (in a limited way) help everybody by clearing sectors for 10 mins.

Although I'm not longer playing, he did alot of good work. I had fun as a PvPer (spamming days and not only). And that alone gives him a "+" in my book.

Before you reply, take one thing into consideration. Are you perfect?




"I'm going to shake this boat....... It is going to get worse before it gets better." - GM_Istvan (more or less)

[Algore]

Who you trying to kid Radi? Yourself?
Octs and sols have mixed fleets. Quants fly MF's exclusively as their leader can't fly anything else and is too busy account exploiting to learn or train in anything else.
The econ workers don't have anything to do as the economy is pants, and flux are flux.
I agree that Istvan has done wonders for the game, and has made things hugely more enjoyable for the majority.

Maybe it's just me but are there not more ex-EU pilots playing these days?
You get my meaning by that comment and the current gameplay style?

[-Vomir-]

Everything from EU is lost, I don't think so.
It might be lost that using the name Wiwaldi in f5 results in a 30 minute flamewar, but many good things* are still around.
Books of hamalzah aren't anymore an "official" quant religion? Who cares, if you want to believe into a flying spaghetti monster** thats your choice. So spread the word of your own religion, doen't even have to be the books of hamalzah, and no GM has to approve it, it's still RP. I bet noone will censor a post in JOSSH forums where you argue with anything written "in the books".
You did learn to speak quanui fluently on EU? Nice, just keep using it, and US pilots will start to use it too, no GM has to do any official post to allow the use of your language. I guess that's the real strong side on Jumpgate, there's nothing you can't do, you can even pretend you still play on EU.

*note that I don't generally consider 30 min flamewars as good thing but these were fun.
**http://www.venganza.org

[Radi]

Originally Posted by Algore

I agree that Istvan has done wonders for the game, and has made things hugely more enjoyable for the majority.

So you do agree with me.


I should have added "in general" before those statements because that is what I meant.

[Smegit]

If RP is driven by the GMs, the players could always do it, just like back on EU when much of the RP was player driven. I guess that would be hard to do with far fewer players, but as anyone given it a try? (I'm not saying that in a smart way either, I just dont know)

If someone is prepared to make the effort to organise the RP, and it has a wide enough appeal, people will join in.

Smeg

P.S. I've not found a use for my web site yet, maybe a dedicated player run RP site is the way to go