[Ambrosius]

While I respect the difference of opinion, I would just like to point out that our difference is not between what is realistic and what is "fun" -- it is a difference between what you think is "fun" and what I think is "fun."

I was driving a tug load of Sport+ down to QC the other night. Malign started pirating me -- I was furously trying to get my tug's Hitmen trained on him, get my Morningstars pointed at him . . while he danced his more nimble Hurricane around and stole 6.5 mil worth of equipment . . . in a shield storm.

My heart was pounding . . . like it did when I got in my first fights . . . like it did when Rollio (or some other famous nasty) would chase down my Tow as I furiously tried to get to reg space or to help or to dock . . . or like it does when I'm in a Ranger trying to re-tune Quant beacons, doublling back . . . docking . . . deepspacing to throw four Octs (who are trying to hem me in) off my track.

I play for "fun" too.

[GrimGriz]

Fun doesn't mean you have to be a helpless victim though. In this particular instance, it might even have been more fun for you to hit a key on the keyboard to switch to your turret and try to shoot him.

In fact, realism is one of the reasons I post for revision of non-pvp ships. This is a galaxy at war. The factions have always been bickering and the conflux have been attacking for a long long time. They should ditch the antiflux and design the non-pvp ships to survive in their environment with a little skill.

Re: piracy, I'm a big fan of insight piracy, but if everyone starts carrying traps I bet it will go away fairly quickly.

[Lordopic]

A turrat or two would be sweet, as for insight piracy I really don’t mind it I just carry on my way and let them have what they will, hell I once lost 18mill of gravs to Doe.

lets face it in this game once you have over a few 100 mill, your pos is set up and stocked with a few kits/ships money is inmartial, might not be for the PVP player I don’t know im not one

As for the POD rat if they are in rats I’ll pay, if they are in MT, ill die. I don’t PVP, I have done it was fun but not for me, if I get caught by a *griefer* then he wont have much of a fight as I’m dying ill be off making a cup of tea or re logging into a different account to carry on with something different.

If I wanted to play Jumpgate as a PVP player consensual or not I would of done it a long time ago.

If they made cargo ships able to defend its self in a multi manta sector when It takes my loaded ship a minute to get to cruising speed then im all for the removal of the antiflux, but then what about miners I think the overhaul of Conflux AI is needed before the AF gets laid to rest.

[Algore]

So basically we have a few things happening here.

1)Space isn't dangerous.
2)GG wants typically non combatant vessels to be better equipped assuming space was dangerous.
3)Bill simply wants a trader win button.

I've been that helpless victim many times before also btw, in virtually every class of ship and tag. Not once, not a few times, more like 100+. I'd argue that I've been bullied more than any of you, but then I guess I evolved.

Just for you btw GG. The tow speeds being fixed(returned to original) would sort things. You die in a tow with the old speeds you are either very heavy, very unlucky, or in my experience with tow pilots.......very stupid.

Regards
Al

[Ambrosius]

FWIW, my previous post was not about how that game should or should not be . . . it was simply trying to point out that "fun" is not a universal constant.

WBs post seemed to suggest Ambro likes to play boring realistic games while WB likes to play games that are "fun" for everyone. Both "fun" and "everyone" are problemmatic terms.

[SingleShot]

I find reapeatedly killing people that I don't like fun.

So many people, so little time!

[spork]

I think if non-combat ships were not so stupidly overmatched, then there would be much less bully-stigma attached to killing them. Thus, I think GG's suggestion of making cargo ships able to fight/survive/run long enough to even have a reasonable chance of living through an encounter with 1-2 enemy fighters would probably help to achieve Al's goal of making space more dangerous/interesting.

[GrimGriz]

Sure it would, and while bringing up the tow speed would help, those ships aren't designed to fly around empty, and that should to be taken into acount as well.

If non-pvp ships were given a fighting/running/lasting till help arrives chance, all sorts of interesting things could happen. For instance, when Quantar declares war on solrain they could give all sols -1 quant PR.

[vorlon31]

I think the biggest mistake in Jumpgate's history was the Tows speed nurf. It was that ships nurf that made traders/haulers feel more vulnarable, which in turn has had many a knock on effect thoughout the game.

Honestly, I know I carp on about the tows but I realy think GMI should be sent to sit in the carpark, not for the tows nerf itself (we all make mistakes) but for not correcting it by now.

Faster tows, safer feeling traders, more risks taken, space gets that little bit more dangerous again and the knock on effects have knock on effects etc etc and so on.

[Algore]

In fairness, Tows speed being nErfed(u fluffy bunny) aside, GMI has done wonders for Jumpgate.

Regards
Al

[vorlon31]

nerf nurf who gives a flying pancake on the lettering for foopy's sake. But carrying on suck butting, it might get you back onto the jossh forums... or not. Aye, being called a fluffy bunny for a misspelling of a brand name makes my day.

[Wild_Bill]

Algore I respect you for being the warrior you are. It's not that I don't have the desire to fight and destroy my opponents, it's that I lack the skill/ability/ hand-eye coordination to do so. I'm quite adept at wing shooting with a shotgun in the real world. I've shot at expert level on the police range with a variety of pistols, nor have I ever had any trouble bringing in meat with a rifle, but in THIS game with THESE tools, I Suck!

I don't get defeated occasionally or every once in a while but almost every single time. Look at my stats. 3 kills out of how many hundreds of pod rides? Admittedly, not all of those rides were the result of combat but still... If those stats in any way strike any of you as "fun" then I can only shake my head in wonder as I wander off. And Al, it's not a WIN button I really want, it's more of a "leave me alone and I'll be glad to leave you alone" button. I don't enjoy being shot down or the hassle of re-equipping, that's all.

I respect Ambro as well, all differences aside and I absolutely agree that we have different ideas about what is fun. The situation you described does not sound like anything I would consider as fun. Being helpless against an aggressor is not my idea of fun. Hell, I'm not opposed to a fight between two combat ships, I just don't like being involved in a fight I have NO chance of winning. Many of the ideas/suggestions you have awarded a "WIN Button" to struck me as sounding like they would be fun, so yeah I do think your idea of "fun" would be making a second job out of the game. Taking more than an hour to get from point "A" to point "B" in a loaded tow/tug, etc is not fun to me. Even though I was in favor of the idea at the time, a mining based economy has turned out to be seriously "not fun" for a whole lot of people, me included.

I want to make it clear, I'm not leaving. I'm not quitting. As my stats prove, I have no trouble taking a pod ride without the assistance of another pilot. My response to "bullying" is to not play. It worked for "THE BORG", it worked for UNBREAKABLE and it seems to have worked for Balrog as well.

I've got nothing against some of space being "dangerous". To me that's what Unreg space or conflux space is for. I just want to know that my hours of work aren't going to be wiped out by some kill-happy (derogatory inflamatory noun of your choice) person who lacks the skill for true combat and thinks shooting down a helpless miner/trader to somehow be "good sport".