[GrimGriz]

One of many reasons Radi, and I still think more have been civved out than those that left for that reason. It wasn't always a problem though. Originally Jumpgate had enough people working on it that cool new interesting things were never far around the corner. What'll we be making on the next faction mission? Heck, I even miss the sentient attacks now, though not the frustration of half of space being infested. I had a lot of fun chasing gobbles down the last couple of days. I think little things like that go a long way.

[Istanbul]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

Some things never change, eh?

so true. why, just tonight, i blew up conflux! i feel so violent.

[Istanbul]

one thing that would have been cool, though, i'm sure there is no way to include it in this game, would be to actually be able to wander around the stations... get personally quarters on one of your factions stations (rather small) an office (if you have the rank/money) and to be able to make decorations and other things for them. Just to be able to personalize things. Big quarters/office/whatnot, if you own a POS. Heck, i don't know if ANY game could really intertwine things that much in a realistic fashion. W/ E&B, you could wander on the stations, but, they were rather small, and there wasn't really a flight engine anyways. I don't know how they would go from complex flight engine to an on station environment. Oh well.

[Radi]

I can see your point GG. However, IHMO this is due to the fact that people can lose large amount of money in seconds. And getting back that money is almost impossible. I mean, fluxing and mining doens't pay enough. Payouts for mining or fluxing missions are laughable to say the least.

I know what others may say - matt farming ruined the game. Maybe. But games should be one thing. They should be fun. Not a chore.

Mining or fluxing couple hours a day just to make enough money to afford couple deaths is not fun in my book.

[Elmdor]

Meh, you only lose alot of money if you fly with missiles....

[Radi]

At least I was not using Morning Stars.

[Wild_Bill]

Ambro, GREAT ideas! I'd love to see that too. New content is very important to the game and keeping people interested. I'm with Radi too on the point about making money and having fun. I agree with Grim Griz on the civing also. Major pain and one of the things that has always set me off. "There I was, just minding my own business when WHAM right out of nowhere this (deleted) comes swooping down and just pure messes up my day". It's happened to me plenty of times. Thankfully I had enough of that nasty ol' farming money to keep playing, Otherwise I might have quit as well. The game has got to be FUN.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Radi

I can see your point GG. However, IHMO this is due to the fact that people can lose large amount of money in seconds. And getting back that money is almost impossible. I mean, fluxing and mining doens't pay enough.

Were you buying gear from overpriced POS or something? Since they lowered equipment tax to 1% instead of 10%, it seems a lot cheaper to die than it used to be. I can make ~1.5 mil with 30 minutes/1 load from my Khamsin, and that's without doing any missions and selling it to a POS straight to fly it to Quant SDS. Don't really know what fluxing pays, I could never kill the big ones.

[Radi]

I was refering to civing a loaded tow full of equipment Grim.

You can even simply die because somebody dumped flux on you while you are heavy.

What if you lost about 200 mills Grim? Because you were trying to stock your POS with equipment and you splashed, flux was dumped on you, or simply cuz Mr. Trigger-Happy didn't like you and he needed a kill.

Even with 1.5 mill per run it would take you about 134 trips. That would take 67 hours to do it. I don't know about you, but that is not fun in my book.

[Ambrosius]

Radi, sorry to hear you're so disenchanted. But what you're saying is just plain wrong. There are TONS of things needed to do where pilots can make a difference in the game.

There's plenty of money to be made, too, if you're not spoiled by farming -- one thing that truly ruined Jumpgate. Unlimited cash made the econ meaningless and made launch-and-die PvP the norm. It also facilitates civ rippers since insurance is meaningless to them.

I agree that lack of content is a problem. But player-initiated content has traditionally been better than the GM stuff anyway. So we have only ourselves to blame there, too.

[Radi]

I know Ambro that money can be made. But it takes time. And while I'm making money, I feel like I'm fighting against the wall. That simply discourages people. I know it can't be easy, but at least it has to be interesting.


As for player content, sure it is fun when it is. But that doesn't happen often (unless that has changed since I left).

Even then thou, there are some limitations over what players you do.


I left because I was bored. It was nightly fights with sols or octs. They have numbers we run. When we have numbers, they run. And of course I can't fly anything bigger than a pest cuz I get ganked. I dont mind changing my habits but when whole fleet of vaders/tensies waste every possible FF to get my phoon (disregarding that they have others quants to deal with when I die) is simply ridiculues. And makes me feel that for trying something else or being different I'm getting smacked.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Radi

I was refering to civing a loaded tow full of equipment Grim.

You can even simply die because somebody dumped flux on you while you are heavy.

What if you lost about 200 mills Grim? Because you were trying to stock your POS with equipment and you splashed, flux was dumped on you, or simply cuz Mr. Trigger-Happy didn't like you and he needed a kill.

Even with 1.5 mill per run it would take you about 134 trips. That would take 67 hours to do it. I don't know about you, but that is not fun in my book.

Well, I gave 200 mill away last time I took a break. What would I do? I'd learn a lesson, don't keep all your eggs in one basket Stocking POS, homing at POS for combat, also helps make bounties meaningless, as there is no need for PR, and to me isn't very fun. However, with the way the econ is, there really isn't anything I can do about it besides quit (which is pretty much why I left last time). Quitting didn't help get the econ back to my definition of functional though, and playing just WC got really boring. So when some AQM guys started to come back, I came too. So I do what I can, make sure the changes I'd like to see are mentioned in the suggestion forum Istvan reads, and try to have a little fun.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

I agree that lack of content is a problem. But player-initiated content has traditionally been better than the GM stuff anyway. So we have only ourselves to blame there, too.

Player-initiated GM endorsed content, at least up until buildings start taking damage. The Fence stuff was interesting, but it didn't end up a JOSSH article, it felt like we were playing pretend while playing pretend.

If you're not having fun fighting with the gank fleet, there's other things to do. Bounty hunting civ for example