[JoeStraz]

Originally Posted by Valmagier

Why couldn't I believe that?

Sorry, but then it's you that has the issue .. not the guys who made the original posts. I didn't see anything that read "EU" in MJ's post. You seem to think it was every other word. I'm sorry, but you might as well be saying "I see dead people" or "the sky is falling" as you sound just as paranoid and delusional.

As for this US vs THEM attitude, get a grip. If you aren't paying ND, and they know you aren't subscribing, they will probably listen to you less then if you were a paying customer. Sounds logical to me, and no sinister US vs EU motives involved. Just pure, un-adulterated greed (and business sense since without subscribers, the game dies). Since it sounds like you are going to re-up, then I would expect ND to take your ideas as seriously as they do everyone elses. If people on this board don't, why does that really matter? I've come up with an idea or two that people have thought was stupid. Does it bother me? Nah. I'll never meet 99.97645873645862% of the people on these message boards, and their opinion of me doesn't change my life one bit.

If you come on to the forum with the attitude of "everyone is against me" and post that way, of course you will be met with hostility. Your reply to MJ's post was completely un-called for and a total guess as to how he was thinking (how do you have a clue to what he's thinking .. you don't even know him!). You are guilty of doing exactly what you believe others are doing to you. Judging you for what country you are from instead of the ideas and knowledge you have.

Now that that's handled, I agree with Custard about the lack of IC reasons for doing what's going on. I have no problems with the temporary dumps, but I would have loved to have seen a news story explaining where the dumps came from for example. It sounds like the EU was a lot more IC then the US was, and I'd love to see that mentality be adopted for the WWS.

[JoeStraz]

Originally Posted by JoeStraz

Now that that's handled, I agree with Custard about the lack of IC reasons for doing what's going on. I have no problems with the temporary dumps, but I would have loved to have seen a news story explaining where the dumps came from for example. It sounds like the EU was a lot more IC then the US was, and I'd love to see that mentality be adopted for the WWS.

Well, I guess this is better then nothing...

http://www.jossh.com/jgeng/ArticleRe...n_1050728.html

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Algore

I don't agree with you custard that there was a real need to have anything said regarding the equipment dumps. ND are clutching at straws with the last free week trying to retain players, thus the quick short term fix.

Told ya so Cust

I do agree however with virtually every other thing(to an extent)that you have said since I registered for this forum, and agree that you have been constantly met with hostility. One's tone tends to change if responded to in that manner constantly over many weeks, especially when time and time again you make vaild points only to have them shot down.

Ones tone tends to change? When someone comes into your house and starts telling you how it's crap compared to the house he used to live in they get hostility, that's how it works.

My tone has simply become unconstructive and generally infantile or sarcastic. It seems that people are only willing to share ideas and appreciate experience if that idea comes from a particular side of the Atlantic. That is fact.

The only reason that is a fact is because people like you and custard only respect opinions from your side of the Atlantic. I have no problems with ideas from anywhere so long as they don't involve wasteful CP and empty TRI stations

I'll be quite frank and admit that I see a lot of inexperienced garbage over here that simply isn't challenged.

Then challenge it intellectually instead of with snide comments.

This is occouring mainly as it is the same inexperienced not so intelligent or rational people that keep coming up with these ideas. There are not that many old timers left on the US, with that not really many people who genuinely know what they are talking about. Unfortunately it is not these people that are making noises.

How long you play doesn't change ignorance level. It's pretty hard to refute broad stereotyping, but if you want to get into specifics...bring it.

When new people make rational comments against the current groove, it is natural that they are met with scepticism, but hostility is couter productive.

When something is known to suck, it will stick suck no matter who suggests it.

*a beer to the person who can disect with the most quotes*

Make it a Guinness.

[Custardx]

As for this US vs THEM attitude, get a grip. If you aren't paying ND, and they know you aren't subscribing, they will probably listen to you less then if you were a paying customer

Once again someone has completly missed the point of the thread i posted. I was saying that the attitude comes from people on this forum, can't say its the whole player base, just some. No Where did I say that ND have a 'Them & Us' attitude, they have a 'gimmie your money attitude' I already pointed out that ND have no reason to value my opinion, I did however state that some people may agree with them and if they are paying customers they may be listened to. For gawds sake, why can't people like you who like to have a go at me atleast read my posts properly and find something to have a go at me about that isnt fabricated.

I don't disagree with all your opinions GG, I agree that mining should play a large part in the economy however I don't agree that everyone should have to mine for hours, spend ages making equip for PvP squads to squander it in about an hour, maybe 2...wait a second, we agree there to. Based on your previous post, are you from my side of the pond?

Ones tone tends to change? When someone comes into your house and starts telling you how it's crap compared to the house he used to live in they get hostility, that's how it works.

When you come into somebodies house and they start telling you how great their house is compared to the crap you come from they get hostility, that's how it works.

Custardx

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Custardx

I don't agree that everyone should have to mine for hours,

I don't know where you got this impression. I think people that don't want to mine shouldn't have to. I also think that the people that do mine should be as valuable and as needed as people that haul (when mined commods were produced by stations this was not the case). Non-pvp 'professions' need to be valuable to the Jumpgate community because they need to be protected by the pvpers. If they are needed to make equipment to fight with, the pvpers have an interest in protecting them from civ-rippers and pirates.

I'm not sitting here like a fat kid with a cake giggling because PvPers think they have to mine at the moment. I don't want to see PvPers mining, I want to see them patrolling the areas the miners are working in and/or attacking the miners and haulers of other factions.

Miners being valuable and the PvPers not having to mine are not mutually exclusive.

When you come into somebodies house and they start telling you how great their house is compared to the crap you come from they get hostility, that's how it works.

Seeing as that house burnt down, there's no reason to be talking about it at all. Some halfway decent suggestions would have gotten a better ear if people had used some tact.

You started talking about my house on the 7th. That's when you began your us/them arguments. I got defensive about the way you were talking about my house, so I got hostile.

[JoeStraz]

Originally Posted by Custardx

Once again someone has completly missed the point of the thread i posted. I was saying that the attitude comes from people on this forum, can't say its the whole player base, just some. No Where did I say that ND have a 'Them & Us' attitude, they have a 'gimmie your money attitude' I already pointed out that ND have no reason to value my opinion, I did however state that some people may agree with them and if they are paying customers they may be listened to. For gawds sake, why can't people like you who like to have a go at me atleast read my posts properly and find something to have a go at me about that isnt fabricated.

Custardx

I wasn't "going at you". I was responding to Valmagier's response to MJ's message. I did say something about you in the last paragraph, but I was actually agreeing with you

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Custardx]

Oh, my apolagies JoeStraz, I mentioned a 'Them & Us' attitude in my previous post and just assumed, sorry.

GG, reading that post of mine I don't see any real hostility in it. Granted I questioned the way the economy worked when I 'came into your house' but it was more of a "Are you sure that Vase goes there," rather than "BURN THE WHOLE THING DOWN, URE HOUSE SUCKS!"

If anything in that post I stated that I don't understand how it works like this, which instead of returning with hostility to me would have waranted explaining to me how it worked. I don't pretend to know everything, unlike some, and would have prefered to have it explained not be yelled at for it.

I agree with what your saying about the changed in the econ for the most part, seems I just don't like you and not your ideas, but it appears neither of us cares

Custardx

[JoeStraz]

No harm, no foul. I was probably harsher in that message then I should have been anyway, but it annoys me when someone complains about something, then does the same exact thing. Ah well .. life goes on

As for everything else, it should be interesting to see where we end up landing after all this. Hopefully, we'll land right in the middle.

[Zaz]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

Make it a Guinness.

He would have to send it to you as i hear real Guiness isnt served that side of the pond

[Custardx]

Depends where the middle is, with Ist looking to change things again the middle might be completly redefined

Custardx