[Stormy]

Originally Posted by Nohbody

Please tell me you didn't register here just to say that...

should i say more? something like: ok, grim you are right. k there is something called POS, but yes why should someone use it?

[Nohbody]

Yeah, instead of going to POSes that've hoarded up all the gear and charge extra for it one can log off. Bonus points for turning off the account to save the $10/month.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Zaz

Fine Grim, demolish all pos, make it like it was pre-ep2 where we all home at core station etc. What do you think that will achieve exactly ?
Lets take OA as an example, seeings as Admiral Scharena has posted here stating they have 34 members and ask 'how will they kit their fleet'

Dude, I love my POS. However, I don't use it to sell gear at ridiculous prices to other players. Unfortunately, a lot of EU players do, so now the only way to get gear is to pay ridiculous prices at a POS. That's not the game I want to play.

@Zaz

34 members relying solely on kit they work to produce on OP ? i dont think so mate, it will be the same as it was pre-EP2 where for every 3 pilots that fly there will be a kit tow or freigher docked on station ready to log in and resupply the pilots.

Over here pre-ep2 the only thing their was tows for is flashfires, the rest of the equipment was on the station (and usually flashfires too).

Let's take OA as an example. OV and all the other smelly oct squads have to have gear too. What if..omg, they all made their own equipment and put it at OP or GP. Then, any time an oct died they'd have gear. The fighters could keep an eye on oct space for non-octs taking gear and rip them if they did.

There will never be a balance. People who sell from POS will always be able to log on and steal the hard work of people who don't. I guess EU players don't like to work together for the benefit of their whole faction. That's fine, but it's turning Jumpgate into a game I don't want to play.

@Scharena

Duration-mining and the lot of h i have to produce something is also the way i don´t like to play this game. But i don´t wanna give up and have to handle it this way....

I've only seen 2 EU players make suggestions on how to help the economy/equipment issue in the suggestions forum on JOSSH. If you folks really care about it why don't you say something over there where Istvan reads??

@stormy
A group of players is making the game I've played for 3 years not fun anymore, damn straight I'm gonna say something about it. If I ripped you every time you launched, you'd probably say something about it too. There's more than one way to ruins someone's fun.

[SingleShot]

Originally Posted by Corn

Every1 acts like pre ep2 thier were these great stocks on station. I wasn't here from Retail-ep2,

They were great. OP/Wake/QC/EE/KH more often than not had most of what would be needed.

And I mostly agree with Grim, except for the fact that I have played on EU and dealt with a POS economy.
To be fair, though, it was aggrivated by the absurdly stupid CP system as well, meaning that even squadded players with an efficient POS supply system got raped on the price of gear.

With a saner economy (and US's current economy certainly doesn't qualify) POSes can be less damaging. But with lots of restriction in the economy, the markups that POS hoarders can achieve is large, because there is no alternative to purchasing from them.
It's important to realize that a 10% markup in price from a POS price gouger means roughly a doubling in the cost of death, assuming a low 9.x IR rate. A 20% markup is closer to tripling the cost of death. If you have a good IR (9.8, or whatever), this increase in the cost of death is even more spectacular.

[Wild_Bill]

Grim, there are many sides to the problem and it's not just the EU pilots by a long shot. I was one of many who wanted "miners to make a difference" and I believe you were one as well. Well, we got what we asked for and now we don't much like it. Mining is not just meaningful any more, it's absolutely required. There just aren't enough miners/producers/haulers to keep up with the demand, especially with the influx of new (to the server) pilots and actual newbs. Sure it would help if miners could produce more ore in less time. It would help if each unit of commods produced more commods or equipment. It would help if "they" turned up the production per cycle.. or factory modules or any one of half a hundred idea... none of which will get implimented because Istvan, no matter how dedicated and talented, is only one guy.

It seems like a lot of the Euro pilots are used to doing things a little different than we are, and that's to be expected. We cannot blame all the current problems on them though, as the economy was headed that way for several months. Their arrival with the POS buy/resell mentality has just accelerated what was already happening.

We can talk about "magic producers" and "adjusting ore percentages" or whatever. The bottom line is, miners/haulers/producers cannot keep up with the demand. If PvP wasn't using up equipment so fast, the buy low/sell high POS crowd would be like the arti merchants were after the economy bust. A bunch of expensive equipment no one could or would afford.

Part of it is we got spoiled with the hyper-availability of equipment and all the high profit runs and yes, farms, pumping cash into the economy until a 10mc piece of equipment was nothing. That same piece of equipment will only gather dust now because no one can afford it.

When you have to spend hours mining, hauling and producing to get enough equipment to re-equip and mining/hauling/producing is NOT what makes Jumpgate fun for you, you won't stay very long. I like mining, producing and hauling. I'd like to make enough money to at least get into the top 100 as far as wealth is concerned. Yet every week I see my net worth going down instead of up. One pod ride now can take several hours of hard work to recoup. Why should I even want to PvP? I don't work to earn my $10 per month to play, only to end up working in-game as well. It's just no fun and that's the place were a lot of us are finding ourselves lately.

I don't know the answer, but I'm pretty sure blaming the EU pilots isn't going to accomplish anything more than running off even more people which would put us back in the same place we were two months ago. I'm not blaming you either Grim, as you are one of the most dedicated pilots in the game and I for one was darned glad to see you come back from your vacation. You've got a lot of ideas and you work hard to achieve your goals.

[-KNIGHT-]

Well Said Wild_Bill

[Custardx]

[COMMENT REMOVED]

All you ever do is moan about stocks, moan about POS. Yea, people buy things and sell it on their POS, ever heard of supply and demand? If he has the supply and there is a demand he can ask whatever price he wants for it.
If you don't like it then do the good thing and stay logged off or switch games. I'm moving games already to one that is multi-player, one that doesn't focus soley on the mining element which is the single player version of the game. If i want a single player game i'll go buy one and play it.
Your supposedly a PvP pilot yet you don't seem to understand the fact that squad want to /home somewhere with equipment, not lose tax money shipping it to core stations and risk having your enemies use it as well.
"Oh No, what about fuel," you whine, for a while now there have been these magical things called refuel and repair modules for POS, when you equip them you can set a price and then people can use it to refuel. It's an amazing concept really...

Either way I find your constant whining rather irritating and I thought it was about time I pointed it out.

Custardx

[Supermax]

I think we should diffentiate between pilots who just want to stock their private or their squad's station for their own use, and those who hoard stuff to sell it at ridiculous prices.

IMO it are only the latter who cause such problems. But if noone pays those prices, these stations will eventually fill up and thus the drain on the economy will stop. One should also bear in mind that quite a few EU players will leave the game as soon as the free period ends.

Apart from that, installing "second sources" (such as Nano Assemblers) for critical commodities such as Helium and Phosphorous would probably ease the situation a little without making miners completely obsolete.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Supermax

I think we should diffentiate between pilots who just want to stock their private or their squad's station for their own use, and those who hoard stuff to sell it at ridiculous prices.

Exactly. I stock my own POS with gear I make for personal use. It's the people that take all the gear from TRI stations and sell it at an inflated price I have a problem with.

@custardx
You can always click 'view public profile' then click 'Add GrimGriz to your ignore list'.

[Supermax]

Its really a pity that normal players can't see the owner of a PoS. Otherwise it would be possible to really do something against such people (apart from not buying from them).

[BloodGuns]

My fault was reading yor post Grim.
I m very dissapointed you feel that way. Yo gotta face the fact that its not "us and them" any more. and gotta face "strippers" also.
Why dont you step in one of "them" guys shoes whom for 3 year approx they ve had a total different mentality on "econ" coz "someone" thought "Its a nice idea to have split economies". Why dont you remember pilots from jourintheway that tried to make the "passing over" to EU and left because of the lack of equipment ?
Why do you see yor "own ideal" point of view?
Here is some news for you from the "other side": I too have had enough with Mining . Yes its true: I dont like mining.
But the "game" forces me to mine. I played Jumpgate since beta man and THIS mining thing is making me to come this>< close to quit . Coz I dont want to live on the expense of other people's produce. (*cough tough **** cough*) you might say but I d also say that if you insist on your initial view.
I thought you were a person with a broad mind , but looking at the post you made you surelly proved me wrong...Times change man. Fast!

[GrimGriz]

The game doesn't force you to mine, and it doesn't force me to buy gear from a jerk's player station. Just because I don't like something and say that I don't like it, doesn't mean I don't see where other people are coming from.

I can say 'having to buy gear from POS makes me want to quit' and you can say 'having to mine makes me want to quit'.

I'd like you to say more about

Coz I dont want to live on the expense of other people's produce

From my side that's how it's supposed to work. PvPers are supposed to protect miners and hauler from pirates and other factions. They are supposed to keep the beacons the right color to keep taxes low. In exchange, the miners and haulers make equipment for their faction. If I am protecting miners and haulers from pirates and they overcharge me for gear, it makes me not want to protect them anymore.

If I am making gear for my whole faction, and some guy takes it for just him and his squad, it makes me not want to make gear anymore.

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

From my side that's how it's supposed to work. PvPers are supposed to protect miners and hauler from pirates and other factions. They are supposed to keep the beacons the right color to keep taxes low. In exchange, the miners and haulers make equipment for their faction. If I am protecting miners and haulers from pirates and they overcharge me for gear, it makes me not want to protect them anymore.

There is a solution to it called "Contract". Communication could solve problems like this. Someone protects a miner/hauler/producer, you 'll earn cheap equipment which was made in that teamwork. Not that it works out everytime, but yes, some made good experiences.

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

If I am making gear for my whole faction, and some guy takes it for just him and his squad, it makes me not want to make gear anymore.

That`s a vicious circle. Like the whole thing about producing/dropping @ TRI-Station/see how it vanishes in minutes. If you produce equipment on your own /squad-teamwork, and I mean produce, beginning with mining, the whole procedure, you want to be able to use the endproduct, and not see how it ends up on someones other POS. For that items will be dropped at a squad-pos, and if you want to run an open POS, several items will be offered at a higher (sometimes ridiculous) price. If there is demand, it will be bought, but the price will safe it from being bought out to fast.


We have to treat each other with respect and there`s no need for any harassment. Half a month is over after the merge, and everybody should have known that there would accure some problems. Some of them were mentioned in different threads and ideas for possible solutions had been posted.