On US vs EU

SingleShot · 02:27 PM

This may or may not be related to the JOSSH forums. I'm aware that this is never a good start to a post on the holy grounds of JSR. meh.

It just occured to me that compared to later day US, EU wasn't really that bad, moderation wise.

Now, I'm mostly a US guy. So, since the beginning of time, I've always held the assumption that EU was where the GMs did dark, terrible things. They flew around cloaked and spied on players. They had long lists of rules that were randomly enforced, and breaking them would mean death. US, in comparison, was the happy server with a small glut of money where people fought, danced, and were generally merry, wonderful people.

Despite the fact that I went and played on EU for kicks and met a bunch of fun people, I really think that core idea of US being the "free" server and EU being the "nazi" server held it's grip on me. I never questioned it.

I think that there was some truth to the idea that US was the comparativly "free" server back in the old days of US. Classic US banned nearly zero people. You could civ rip for eternity, grief entire factions, and the GMs wouldn't care. You could say whatever you wanted on oct/sol/qbld, the GMs wouldn't care. This may have been linked to the complete lack of GMs, and in the inital days of Themis, complete lack of GMs that cared.
No matter how fair or just EU GMs were, EU couldn't possibly be more "free" than US simply because they were doing their job.

I think I've finally shaken the belief that I used to hold about US v EU, though. I've realized that latter day US is actually much worse than EU. I should have seen it a long time ago, the tipping point we had on US. Pushing players to :chat, enforcing chat rules, shutting down forums.jossh...
All of those actions seemed to have a good bit of reasonability behind them, especially to the oh-so-mature segment of Jumpgate crowd. (I certainly don't count myself among them, and I suspect if they even cared about me, they wouldn't either)

But look where it's gotten us.

"Edited for being a jerk.--GM Thorn", followed by ban.

A jerk? lol. How far we've fallen.

On EU, the "nazi" server, you may have gotten banned for looking at a civ sideways, but your squadmates could certainly call the GM(s)/OP(s) responsible "fawking idiots" all day long afterwards. Toast might not have liked them much afterwards but people didn't get shut up and shut out that often.
Here? Don't go off topic...or it's a ban! Don't be a jerk...ban! In general do something that the GM (is there more than one?) doesn't like? Ban! The server long since passed the place where the evil foul language stopped. Prophet/Rix quit a long time ago anyway. But apparantly that doesn't stop absolutely brilliant moves like, say, the one Thorn pulled up there. Random, excessive enforcement is definitely the way to move forward, not backward!

I guess we as US players can still rip civs mindlessly, but that's about it. The US GMs have pulled back from the blatant [edit] that Trogdor represented, but not the policies that he enforced.

I'm not trying to pull an Aubrey thing here. Who knows if Al is permanantly off forums.jossh, although I see no reason to believe that he's not. Al is banned, I like the guy, but that's about the end of it. I think the Jumpgate community has long since passed the point where anything actually matters.

Sure Thorn, ban one of the more important EU leaders still around off the forums because you don't like his sarcasm! Jumpgate in whatever state it continues to fall to is propped up solely because the EU guys had the grace to stick around after their server bit it. Why don't you give them a nice, gentle slap to the face? It's just stupid. But it stopped mattering a long time ago.

So just to clairify, I serve no high ideological cause with this little post. I'm simply mentioning that that I've realized that US has long since passed EU levels of moderhation.

In fact, that's an applicable word. Moderhation. I don't think the EU GMs strategy of enforcement (which I can't say I always liked) was actually anti-game. They cared. They wanted their game to continue onwards.

US? We get Themis.

Discuss!

Radi

Whats the point to discuss? More flames? More whinage?

SingleShot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radi

Whats the point to discuss? More flames? More whinage?

If you want, go ahead.

QrazyKermi

Similar sentiments have been expressed before, that Themis is much more inconsistent than MG was, and that Themis can be far more intolerant than MG was. But the main difference I see between TG and MG is that the MG folks banned and censored out of a true desire to see the game remain agreeable to the most people it could. Themis' motivation behind their actions is simply to do the job they think they've been hired to do. They have no honest love for the game, and they consistently make the mistake of letting that fact be shown every time they need to enforce the law. Banning people isn't the real problem, it's HOW they do it that's the problem.

But this is all old news. Nothing has changed in a long long time, and nothing will.

Elmdor

For all the time I've been playing Jumpgate, the server has never even approached 100 players online, except during the WoW. EU was that holy place where they had 120 on for most of the day. US has very little RP. EU had it all the time. At this point I don't care about the economy, I just want people to play with. If it means making everything by CP, so be it.

Ambrosius

Well it seems to me that, like it or not, you know what can get you banned on the Forums so if you insist on pushing the envelope . . .

I'm not saying I agree with the rules, but even if you think they're stupid, they're pretty easy to follow.

Frankly I'd rather have forum police than in-game GM police. I don't pay $9.95 to post on a forum, I pay to play.

Jump

Hmmm, a post post post post post post traumatic stress event. Interesting, but tired.

Who needs JOSSH Forum? I have made it through many days and nights without JOSSH forums. And I didn't even use steroids to give myself the extra strength to endure such a thing. Ok, well, I had a few beers.

It cracks me up how you all feel the dire need to post on that outdated, worthless pile of insecure and impotent cesspool overflow code. Nothing good has ever come of anything there.

THERE IS NO PIE THERE!

Just a stanky old ham sandwich.

Nohbody

Other than noting I find it interesting that people are amazingly quick to assume that they know what's going on inside TG GM heads, I think I'm going to follow Algore's lead, here, with the following quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algore

.

Gent30

I think Forum banning a player who pays to play is wrong.

It anti-social.

I think US is tipping the scales away from EU, shame really, I love Jumpgate so much, I like to voice my thoughts, but Jossh Forums is just suggestion spam to teh extreme, and I have little suggestion most of the time.

Argyris

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jump

[...]
Who needs JOSSH Forum? I have made it through many days and nights without JOSSH forums. And I didn't even use steroids to give myself the extra strength to endure such a thing.[...]

For once I have to agree with Gent. I used to see forums as a place where u have the chance to give some profile to your RP and for that matter I regarded the MG forums as an important part of the game. But then again... Who needs RP?

Concerning the banning-habits on jossh-forums it really gives me a stale taste to say the least. To someone who grew up beyond the iron curtain it calls forth some quite unpleasant memories, if ya know what I mean

Nohbody

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argyris

To someone who grew up beyond the iron curtain it calls forth some quite unpleasant memories, if ya know what I mean

Because, of course, Themis has a bunch of overglorified thugs with guns ready to "disappear" anyone (and/or their immediate family) who speaks out of line, and make those "disappeared" people wind up in some local variation on the lovely resort formerly found at 1 Dzerzhinsky Square...

Obviously some people have issues with Themis. I don't necessarily share them, but that's life. It'd be nice if folks didn't jump straight in with emotion-laden hyperbole, though.

Antikas

In contrast, I was banned from Jumpgate by my wife, when Trogdor was just a whelpling and used to let us shoot him down in the sim for fun.

Had my wife been a Themis GM, NONE OF YOU would be playing today. Think about that!

/EDIT-- Note, I was banned for enjoying the game too much. x2

TRI Pilots On Duty
On Duty:	22
In Flight:	8
Solrain:	7
Octavius:	5
Quantar:	10
TRI:	0

Category	Pilot	Score
Kills	Algore	2,875
Kill Ratio*	_RAMSES_	410.714 %
Bounty Collected	Killntime	407,838,097
Munitions Accuracy*	Psycho	85.893 %
Projectile Accuracy*	Psycho	96.774 %
Total Conflux Kills	vorlon31	149,673
Experience	Adi564	100,000,000
Mission Success Ratio*	Arkady	100 %
Insurance Rating*	Farve	10 %
Net Worth	TomCarrer	c22,294,632,152
Duty Hours	RedDwarf	19,756.7
*minimum requirements to qualify


	SingleShot Member Pilot Name: SingleShot Joystick: Spare FF2 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 497 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	On US vs EU This may or may not be related to the JOSSH forums. I'm aware that this is never a good start to a post on the holy grounds of JSR. meh. It just occured to me that compared to later day US, EU wasn't really that bad, moderation wise. Now, I'm mostly a US guy. So, since the beginning of time, I've always held the assumption that EU was where the GMs did dark, terrible things. They flew around cloaked and spied on players. They had long lists of rules that were randomly enforced, and breaking them would mean death. US, in comparison, was the happy server with a small glut of money where people fought, danced, and were generally merry, wonderful people. Despite the fact that I went and played on EU for kicks and met a bunch of fun people, I really think that core idea of US being the "free" server and EU being the "nazi" server held it's grip on me. I never questioned it. I think that there was some truth to the idea that US was the comparativly "free" server back in the old days of US. Classic US banned nearly zero people. You could civ rip for eternity, grief entire factions, and the GMs wouldn't care. You could say whatever you wanted on oct/sol/qbld, the GMs wouldn't care. This may have been linked to the complete lack of GMs, and in the inital days of Themis, complete lack of GMs that cared. No matter how fair or just EU GMs were, EU couldn't possibly be more "free" than US simply because they were doing their job. I think I've finally shaken the belief that I used to hold about US v EU, though. I've realized that latter day US is actually much worse than EU. I should have seen it a long time ago, the tipping point we had on US. Pushing players to :chat, enforcing chat rules, shutting down forums.jossh... All of those actions seemed to have a good bit of reasonability behind them, especially to the oh-so-mature segment of Jumpgate crowd. (I certainly don't count myself among them, and I suspect if they even cared about me, they wouldn't either) But look where it's gotten us. "Edited for being a jerk.--GM Thorn", followed by ban. A jerk? lol. How far we've fallen. On EU, the "nazi" server, you may have gotten banned for looking at a civ sideways, but your squadmates could certainly call the GM(s)/OP(s) responsible "fawking idiots" all day long afterwards. Toast might not have liked them much afterwards but people didn't get shut up and shut out that often. Here? Don't go off topic...or it's a ban! Don't be a jerk...ban! In general do something that the GM (is there more than one?) doesn't like? Ban! The server long since passed the place where the evil foul language stopped. Prophet/Rix quit a long time ago anyway. But apparantly that doesn't stop absolutely brilliant moves like, say, the one Thorn pulled up there. Random, excessive enforcement is definitely the way to move forward, not backward! I guess we as US players can still rip civs mindlessly, but that's about it. The US GMs have pulled back from the blatant [edit] that Trogdor represented, but not the policies that he enforced. I'm not trying to pull an Aubrey thing here. Who knows if Al is permanantly off forums.jossh, although I see no reason to believe that he's not. Al is banned, I like the guy, but that's about the end of it. I think the Jumpgate community has long since passed the point where anything actually matters. Sure Thorn, ban one of the more important EU leaders still around off the forums because you don't like his sarcasm! Jumpgate in whatever state it continues to fall to is propped up solely because the EU guys had the grace to stick around after their server bit it. Why don't you give them a nice, gentle slap to the face? It's just stupid. But it stopped mattering a long time ago. So just to clairify, I serve no high ideological cause with this little post. I'm simply mentioning that that I've realized that US has long since passed EU levels of moderhation. In fact, that's an applicable word. Moderhation. I don't think the EU GMs strategy of enforcement (which I can't say I always liked) was actually anti-game. They cared. They wanted their game to continue onwards. US? We get Themis. Discuss!
		__________________ Got foon? jgcentral.net is the home of The Brotherhood. Last edited by GrimGriz; 10-26-2005 at 02:27 PM.. Reason: Language, please see: http://joystickrequired.com/forums/faq.php?faq=new_faq_item#faq_language_faq_item


	Radi Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 647 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Whats the point to discuss? More flames? More whinage?


	QrazyKermi Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CT Posts: 579 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Similar sentiments have been expressed before, that Themis is much more inconsistent than MG was, and that Themis can be far more intolerant than MG was. But the main difference I see between TG and MG is that the MG folks banned and censored out of a true desire to see the game remain agreeable to the most people it could. Themis' motivation behind their actions is simply to do the job they think they've been hired to do. They have no honest love for the game, and they consistently make the mistake of letting that fact be shown every time they need to enforce the law. Banning people isn't the real problem, it's HOW they do it that's the problem. But this is all old news. Nothing has changed in a long long time, and nothing will.


	Elmdor Member Pilot Name: Elmdor Faction: Quantar Joystick: Microsoft FF2 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 279 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	For all the time I've been playing Jumpgate, the server has never even approached 100 players online, except during the WoW. EU was that holy place where they had 120 on for most of the day. US has very little RP. EU had it all the time. At this point I don't care about the economy, I just want people to play with. If it means making everything by CP, so be it.
		__________________ <Delphince> I stopped caring about matter farms the day I realized masterbation was an exploit


	Ambrosius Member Pilot Name: Ambrosius Faction: Quantar Joystick: MS FF2 Join Date: May 2004 Location: The Stone Temple Posts: 1,939 Nominated 4 Times in 3 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 3	Well it seems to me that, like it or not, you know what can get you banned on the Forums so if you insist on pushing the envelope . . . I'm not saying I agree with the rules, but even if you think they're stupid, they're pretty easy to follow. Frankly I'd rather have forum police than in-game GM police. I don't pay $9.95 to post on a forum, I pay to play.


	Jump Big Daddy Pilot Name: JumpDemon Faction: Solrain Joystick: MS FF2 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tracy, Ca. Posts: 7,128	Hmmm, a post post post post post post traumatic stress event. Interesting, but tired. Who needs JOSSH Forum? I have made it through many days and nights without JOSSH forums. And I didn't even use steroids to give myself the extra strength to endure such a thing. Ok, well, I had a few beers. It cracks me up how you all feel the dire need to post on that outdated, worthless pile of insecure and impotent cesspool overflow code. Nothing good has ever come of anything there. THERE IS NO PIE THERE! Just a stanky old ham sandwich.
		__________________ Currently working hard to break the server... >> Help support JSR through our Amazon store


	Gent30 Cadet Pilot Name: -Gent30- Joystick: Cyborg EVO Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: France Posts: 61 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	I think Forum banning a player who pays to play is wrong. It anti-social. I think US is tipping the scales away from EU, shame really, I love Jumpgate so much, I like to voice my thoughts, but Jossh Forums is just suggestion spam to teh extreme, and I have little suggestion most of the time.


	Antikas Recruit Pilot Name: Antikas Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: A Jar Posts: 26 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	In contrast, I was banned from Jumpgate by my wife, when Trogdor was just a whelpling and used to let us shoot him down in the sim for fun. Had my wife been a Themis GM, NONE OF YOU would be playing today. Think about that! /EDIT-- Note, I was banned for enjoying the game too much. x2
		__________________