[-Vortex-]

Hi everyone!

I do not like the current Defier shield. The last statistics for this shield that I knew were maxdef ~13000K and a regen similar to what it has now. Everyone was using it. Now it has only 8500K maxdef what makes it very weak in my eyes. I do not know what shields are generally used at the moment and would be interested in your opinions and choices.
I m for sure sticking with a haven at the moment, an I think almost everyone does.
Attached you can find a table with the current s2 shield statistics. Generally I think Istvan did a nice job in creating three cheaper shields that get better and more expensive in a nice line (low end) and having three different high end shields to choose from. Let s take a look:
The haven is the standard. It features optimal maxdef and a good regen. The Defier features only 55% of the havens maxdef but has 47% more regen rate. The Rocky has almost the same maxdef as the haven but a regen that is 18% worse. In exchange it has a mass of 1100 instead of 3500, drains only 98K instead of 174K energy and is cheaper.
This doesn t look too bad in the first place.

Lets see what situations shields have to face:
1) 1vs1: The shield is getting used constantly for 20s - 60s in most cases.
2) XvX: The shield is getting used for 20-60s than it has some time to recharge as your enemy is down or you have to use ffs. I f you do not die, then it has to recharge while you reenter the battle. Rinse and repeat until you or your enemy does not have ffs anymore or one of you dies.
3) 1VsX: You get ganked, either while you are lone or while you are in a bigger battle, that doesn t matter too much. This situation also counts for being hit by missiles. Your shield is downed faster than in 30s and you probably, too. If not, the second situation might apply.

1) Requires a good overall protection (maxdef and regen) in a timeframe of 20-60s, 2) would require a better regen and 3) would require a better maxdef.

The Defier is designed for 2). A full shield regeneration takes only 51.52 s while a haven regen takes 137 s. That should make it viable in big fights that last longer than 2 minutes. But nobody chooses it because it sucks so much in situations 1) and 3). It offers the same protection (maxdef+regen*time) as the haven after both shields have been used for 130.2 s. That is obviously too long. I would say it should be equal at about 45-60s in order to make it worse than the haven for 3) only a little worse for 1) but definately better in 2).
In order too choose a maxdef value for the defier that is appropriate, meaning that at least 25% of the people consider it better for their purposes than the haven, I would like to know at what maxdef you would prefer a defier over the haven. I am convinced that the defier has to be improved again and noone else than us can tell Istvan better what value to choose.
If it turns out, that nobody uses the Rocky either, its regen should be increased in order to make it more attractive.
All three shields should have their justification and be used.
Opinions?

[Elmdor]

Old Defier was a bit ridiculous but it got hit hard with the nerfbat.

[Jump]

What point is this? There is going to be no changes to Jumpgate TRI now that Jumpgate Evolution is on the horizon.

[-Vortex-]

Well, Jumpgate Evolution might be a year or more away if it s done when it is perfect ;-). And fixes like this are the easiest to be done.
In addition considerations applied here might be usefull for Jumpgate Evolution balancing, too. To me it seems like Istvan misjudged the needs of Jumpgate Classic pvpers (maxdef is obviously seen a lot more important than regen by people) and made a balanceadjustment that made a very good item totally unused.
They ll have to do the same balancing for Jumpgate Evolution and we ll play with Jumpgate Classic for still quite some time.. where is this pointless?

[Jump]

It's pointless because they are not going to spend time working on non bug related issues with Jumpgate TRI. It's just reality and makes it pointless by default. But if you think it's not then by all means, carry on. Just giving my opinion.

[Ambrosius]

The shields were rebalanced with the Haven being max damage, the Defier being max recharge and the Canopy being "in between."

Doubtful that any further changes are in the works. You may want to give the Canopy a try if you want more recharge.

[-Vortex-]

The canopy is a low end shield and not worth much consideration once you have the money for a haven (see table).

Well, changes like these don t mean too much work and would help understanding what people want to have as shield choices for Jumpgate Evolution, too.
Never say never ;-) .. worth a try in my eyes at least.

[Ambrosius]

Not sure about your "high-end" and "low-end" -- during the rebalance the Canopy was intentionally designed to be a middle of the road option between Haven and Defier.

[-Vortex-]

Yeah, now that you told me ... I can believe that.
A shield like that would make sense for someone who believes a 8500K maxdef Defier will be used ;-).
I considered it lowend as it reaches the same protection as the haven at something around 4 minutes.
The haven is way better... and really .. who is using a Canopy?

[dailatron]

Its a conspiracy to stop the number one, size two shield being of Octavian production. Notice how the only size two shields worth using are both made by Cromforge ?.

[Aphelion]

Originally Posted by Elmdor

Old Defier was a bit ridiculous but it got hit hard with the nerfbat.

I remember when everyone switched from Haven to Defiers. When the first "option" was given, there really wasn't an option unless you were dueling. The same thing has almost happened again, but this time there are more "options." Unfortunately, I'm guessing that Jumpgate Classic's engagements are all very similar of either 1v1 or 1vGank, so just pick the shield that fits online pilots at the time. Simple.

Originally Posted by Jump

What point is this? There is going to be no changes to Jumpgate TRI now that Jumpgate Evolution is on the horizon.

Hmm... I guess this makes sense, but has it been confirmed? Maybe Vortex just likes mental masturbation, m'kay?

Personally, it sounds like I would try out the Rocky on a light ship to maximize T/M ratios. Acceleration ftw!