[SingleShot]

Originally Posted by Algore

The EU was not CP hell. Yes there were lots of CP's but to suggest it was CP driven shows clearly your complete lack of understanding of what it was like, and your ignorance. As I've said before SS, without a sugar daddy you couldn't have played EU as you were unwilling to give the economy a go.
It's a fact that at the end EU had 5x(conservative multiple) the numbers of US. Does this not show you something?

Does it occur to you that I realized that, and it was part of the formation of my feelings on the matter? Losing a million credits a death was just...ugh. The CP economy was unimaginably dumb, even the EU economizers of the day must've realized it, with them being phased out by the end of EU.

I'm not going to defend the Istvan economy, I've never been a fan.
To be fair the Late late EU economy looked nice, but of course Classic US is the best.

[Lordopic]

Originally Posted by xerout

I must assume LO was taking to me on this point. Thank you LO, please pass that along to Isty.

Xerout

Hey hold on there we have only just met i dont know you well enough to form any sort of judgement on your Jumpgate know how.

and no it wasnt you i was talking about but my very dear friend Ambronoyoudont

[Corn]

I Think old Single Shot hit on the head, BRING BACK FARMING.....Whine, whine, whine. Theres alot to be desired from farming, 1. More credits equally lesser value on them, witch makes deaths just a stat, like they should be. I know this was trying to be fixed by the new Military tags, but just has not done the job.
2. Farming creates a need for items to be moved, no one cared that there matter converters created nothing, it was the fun of moving them from point A to point B. I miss hauling i would love to log on and do some hauling for fun put currently i don't feel like checking the BPC all day to find a run worthwhile that makes me 1mil+.
3. Farming actually makes it exciting for noobs lving, oh i can't wait untill im Lvl ??(cant remember when u get the tow) because now i can start hauling to get some credits, so i can by a ridicoulous priced pos.
4.The return of the arty market.

Matte farming was the best the economy was ever going to get, and ever will get. To be honest i think the changes to the economy were done for an old player base that have all left, and was not thourghly thought threw.

I know every1 doesnt want every player to have a billion credits but lets face it i have my 8pt pos w/8 modules and fully stock i still have around 200mill credits, witch i'll probably never spend, so who cares if that 200mil is 1 billion.

The 2 things the CP economy of EU had going for it was that it created POS as the place for buying goods, witch i love. Currently on US the way things are if your trying to run a small time business for extra credits on your pos the only thing u will ever sell will be ffs/missles and only if your strategically place somewhere from RV-DG. And the secound was the immediate turn around of production, no waiting for cycles on station, no wasted hours sitting on a station picking ur items up as the hit the floor for fear some1 else might come and hoard them.

I while ago i put up a pretty long post on the glorys of Farming.

[SingleShot]

I really am not a pro-farming advocate.

The measures that have been taken against it are not so awesome though. It would be nicer to have a proper fix to it, but I presume that would involve a really ugly journey to one of the fundamental bits of Jumpgate's code.

[Ambrosius]

Farming was incredibly destructive to Jumpgate.

No economy can be judged unless there are consumers. Therefore, there's no way to judge the Istvan econ. IMO, it's directionally good, but needs lots more complexity and depth. I'm certain he knows this as much as we do. But what he also knows is that no amount of economic complexity will do any good unless there are consumers (players) -- and econ updates are not the way best way to draw attention to the game (e.g. look at an Eve trailer. See much mining or freight-hauling?). Again, IMO, he will have to do the "sizzle" stuff to get players in, and then quickly do the "core" stuff (like a compex economy) in order to make them stay.

Only time will tell if he can pull it off.

[Smaggler]

Arguably time has spoken.

[Algore]

With respect again Corn.
Did you play at the time farming was about?

[Istanbul]

well, he implied that farming gave him an outfitted 8pt station as well as 200 million credits that he couldn't spend in the rest of his life, unless you really get to work and wreck his insurance rating.

[GrimGriz]

Small point:
It's fine for you to say the EU econ was better because you had higher numbers. Personally, I think that had a [HEL] of a lot more to do with the fact you had GMs (plural) and OPs.

re: econ
Istvan needs to do something about the econ a year ago. It's needed a bandaid this whole time and he wants to wait until he can fix it right. At this point, it could probably get the bandaid and no one would notice.

(p.s. I think the band-aid should be making everything but iron and silicon produce at station. Fully produce, not trickle. Miners would still be needed for iron and silicon.)

[Ambrosius]

The problem with farming was that once you had lots of people with effectively unlimited cash, cash (for that large group of people) lost its value. When cash has no value there is, by definition, NO economy.

The near-perfect Jumpgate econ was proposed a few years back by Duodecimal -- but it was probably far too complex to ever be put into place. It included a semi-fixed money supply -- which you need for a true economy. I don't have the llink handy. If I dig ip up, I'll post it.

[Algore]

Explain what farming was Ambro.
Explain how it was carried out, how it was implemented, and how it made cash in your experience.

Regards
Al

[Magnus]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

Miners would still be needed for iron and
silicon.)

It should be the other way around. Noone will mine silicone and iron except for the cases when u really need them to produce something and this will not be enough. Thos few mined commods should be expensive ones,tomake it worth minning them. The rest should be spawned.

[Smegit]

Hope nobody minds if I drop my 2 penneth in here as I am neither pro nor anti US/EU economics. But I do feel our cousins across the atlantic miss the point of the CP economy.

My squad, once the richest squad