[GrimGriz]

I've moved to trying to get Istvan to make the non-pvp ships be able to run, defend themselves, or survive til help arrives...if anyone is looking for a group to side with

[Istanbul]

Hey, I can't say I've ever had to deal with this personally. I'm generally smart enough not to get myself in a bad situation. For example, though I used the term roid raging apes, it was directed at no particular person to make them mad at me! I've been civ-ripped a total of one time that I can recall and I was in a ranger. If I hadn't have been extremely tired and out of sorts from work, i'd have probably gotten away. I guess my thing is I just can't understand how people can get so much enjoyment out of being, well, angry. I sure as hell don't enjoy work when it makes me angry. (though sometimes humor arises in those situations). And there is no other game... and don't tell me aces high... blegh... I liked E&B, in spite of it's lack of flying skill, but, Eve, SWG, they are nothing. (I even attempted to play eve once...) Like I said, I'm content to await the full implementation of Istvan's vision. I only say anything because, like I said in an earlier post, it seems like the non-PvPers (at least myself for sure) do in fact understand where the PvPers are coming from. (Heck, i've acquitted myself fairly well in the 2 wows I partook of, so i'm sure if I wanted to do that stuff I'd at least hold my own fairly quickly, btw, i killed umm.. sephiroth once , you GOTTA give me respect for that!) Umm... like normal, i've lost track of any sense of where i'm going with this, so...

[GrimGriz]

You were saying non-pvpers see and know where pvpers are coming from, but pvpers refuse to see where non-pvpers come from. I figure some don't want to see, some see and don't care, some see and do/say nothing

[vorlon31]

On the whole true pvp'rs do fight other pvp'rs but occasionaly someone has a brain flip and decides that deliberately shooting civ ships is OK on a regular basis. And it is those players who tend to harm the game.

The unreg argument and the lack of traffic that goes there is a long standing issue. But people tend to steer clear of it for many reasons 1 of which is that there isnt anything there to reward the risk of going on a regular basis.

I have made posts on jossh with sugestions to make GBS more pivitol in Jumpgate, like having that station back engineer equipment to raw comods etc but nothing happens.

Maybe its not fair to blame pvp'rs for doing what the game allows them to do, but then that brings me full circle to my init post saying that the coding needs to be changed so that pilots with a civ regestry in reg space (possibley in their own faction space only) need to be invulnarable to all TRI weapons bar missiles.

As for solitair Redrum, I could say the same about Quake to you, but I dont because I realise that jumpgate needs all sorts of people, with all sorts of gameplay, all of the time. The trick is in making them interact without one exerting too much ego on the other.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

You were saying non-pvpers see and know where pvpers are coming from, but pvpers refuse to see where non-pvpers come from. I figure some don't want to see, some see and don't care, some see and do/say nothing

You know there's a problem when I agree with GrimGriz

[Nohbody]

Originally Posted by vorlon31

Maybe its not fair to blame pvp'rs for doing what the game allows them to do, but then that brings me full circle to my init post saying that the coding needs to be changed so that pilots with a civ regestry in reg space (possibley in their own faction space only) need to be invulnarable to all TRI weapons bar missiles.

Sure, if you want to drive people away.

I'm not a hardcore PvPer (I was pretty mediocre when regularly flying, probably even worse now), but if civ tags were made an invulnerability option in reg space, I can see a lot of people walking away from Jumpgate, with me among them.

At the very least, civ invulnerability would practically be a written invitation to assorted goobers doing gooberish things under the protection of invulnerability, being kept immune from the consequences of their actions (which for a game priding itself on offering the chance to roleplay [vice the "rollplay" of most non-FPS MMOGs] is a pretty glaring logic hole) by game mechanics.

Given the current level of GM involvement on the server, how many people do you think would be driven away by harassers whose activities don't include shooting at players* before they were shown the door? I mean, look at how long before Cobra was tossed out, and arguably there's a relatively easy case to make for his removal from the game. How long before the non-rip harassment would add up to a noticeable pattern of abuse of game mechanics that requires GM attention?

It seems to me that making civ=invulnerable, even if only in a limited context, would be far more harmful to the game than the relatively small handful of smacktards (in the case of the just-finished flap, one individual).





* Some things that come immediately to mind, off the top of my caffeine-deprived head, in a list of possibilities that doesn't even pretend to be all-inclusive: killstealing flux from low-level pilots, bumping heavy haulers/miners into stations/roids, commodity splashing, and intentional flux dumping

[vorlon31]

Of course, this could all be academic.

If only Istvan would give us some sort of sneak peak, a brief explanation of his what he intends in the future warfare patches. Maybe we could stop chassing our tails and biting each other a little then as we dribble with anticipation over its arrival.

In truth I dont see civ'ing as ever beeing a server wide problem, just one that occasionaly rears its head when a "smacktard" as noh put it, has a brain flip.

I do think my posts about making civs invulnarable were just me trying to wind people up a little, and I agree that as a game it wouldnt be playable like that. soz.

Its an early smacktard warning system thats needed.
Maybe jossh could count bounty making kills for something for that.

[Ambrosius]

Is there really that much rampant civ-ripping going on that it merits all of this debate? I play fairly often and I'm not seeing it, but perhaps it's happening during EU prime time while I'm at work.

[vorlon31]

TBH no, theres not much civripping going on, if any now that a certain individual is in Solrains maxximum security facility.

But the debate has a life of its own

[GrimGriz]

Seems more often than not, there's someone with a bounty on when I'm playing. That it's been 3+ years and the same thing is being debated indicates that the problem has yet to be satisfactorily addressed. The real question is, are you not seeing it because of the low online numbers, and would you be seeing it if smacktards hadn't already run off so many people.

[Algore]

you all bite so easy

Station stripping - with more players working on the economy, mining and producing things this wouldnt be an problem. But because of civ'ing those plots arent there anymore. I bet theyd come back though..

Civ spying - fly to unreg, if the spy follows ....

Abusing civ tags, such as taking temps in HGvHG fights - wouldnt be pissible if only hg/hg weapons hurt sheilds.

Unreg jumping - lets create a 60 second rule, where for 60 seconds after a jump from unreg any pilot could be downed.

Supplying the enemy - where's the enemy POS? If its in unreg then youd have no problems, if its in reg I guess tough is the answer, besides doesnt your pos need stocking too?

Flipping factional beacs a different colour - flip them first, they can only be flipped by a civ if your have let them go grey anyway. Its like my kids wanting to play with wha the others got - you werent interested in beacons before the civ flipped them so to civ for his flipping seems a little odd.

Stealing flux - flux are free and plentiful spawn more and kill them quicker.

Stealing anything else that can be stolen - that would req burglar and bounties would be issued - then its fair game if you can catch the pirate.

Bumping tows while civ - be more careful when you dock.

Any more?

Jumpgate is a pvp game, but it is also an economy game and a fluxing game and a mining game and more. Unreg exists for a reason, thats the place where anything goes not reg space.
Off Duty
vbmenu_register("jg_player_823 1_info");

I'm amazed you have played the game for so long. I could rip holes in everything you say on this topic, but I'd prefer to give you the following polite bit of advice:

STICK TO FLUXING DUDE

[Istanbul]

Well Algore, while the middle section of that he may not have any experience in, the first point and the last couple (from flux stealing down) he has a point. #1 there isn't much station stripping going on atm. #2- Who gives a rats behind if someone kills a couple pink things #3 pirating is already addressed, if they pirate w/o pirate tags they get a bounty. #4 everyone should be careful while docking, and hey, once in awhile accidents happen. The business between PvP squads in the middle, yeah, that's rather out of touch, but, anyone who's doing that DOES in fact know what they are doing can cause death as you are directly doing something against a PvPer.