[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

And then you need to deal with the flip side of the coin by deling with the current "Grimgriz dilemma" where the bountied pilot cannot effectively defend himself when confronted by the bounty hunter. This is a particular problem for the "Justified Civ Rip" scenario.

/vouch, run me to unreg, work off your bounty..

Even with justified rips, there's no real reason to carry a bounty. There's reason to take a bounty, but why carry one?

Further, why should the civ ripper be able to defend himself? If he ripped a miner or hauler they really didn't stand a chance to defend themselves due to ship design, why should the criminal be allowed defense when the victim isn't?

[Algore]

"Justified Civving Gone Wild" (see Oct/Quant civ war thread on JOSSH)

Bad example created by assumption.
I think the whole affair has probably resulted in less than 10 civ rips on each side, less than 5 civ rips combined on both sides on tows/freighters etc.
There's been a lot more civ rips on the forums than there has been ingame.

I like to be picky.

Regards
Al

Further, why should the civ ripper be able to defend himself? If he ripped a miner or hauler they really didn't stand a chance to defend themselves due to ship design, why should the criminal be allowed defense when the victim isn't?

Why should some random biatch bounty hunter be allowed to poke their nose into something that had nothing to do with them. Private inter squad civ wars par example. I see little difference with reg/unreg tag abusers here. Lots of ways to look at things in life, God didn't invent selective vision, he just had too many beers that day and kinda screwed up the coding.

[Wild_Bill]

Algore, regarding the Quant/Oct civil war or whatever it's called, I am not involved so I'll leave that alone other than saying 5 civ rips on non-combat ships is excessive and should cost the offender a whole bunch.

For GG's comments I totally agree. In your case where the civ rips are judged "justified", there are enough OV or other squads to work off the bounty in relative safety. A civ rip by definition is an attack on a pilot who's tags show to be not interested in combat. In-game, it's nearly always a case of an attack on a non-combat ship (transport, hauler or miner) with limited ability for self defense by a combat ship (fighter, LF, MF, HF, etc).

Ambro, I absolutely believe any pilot who civ-rips more than one other pilot per month should face penalties equal to at least 20% of their total worth per rip. So a pilot who rips 5 other pilots in a month better have a seriously money making 2nd account to pay his way or else it's poor-house city.

[Radi]

Good idea WB but not practical.

Let's just say that I will not have much money on my civ ripping account. And when I die, I will just transfer enough money from my 2nd to buy another batch of equipment. Or buy equipment from my POS. Sure I loose money, but I will loose little.

There is almost always a workaround.

I do agree that civ rips are part of the game. It is sometimes used as a measure of justice.

I do agree with GG that cargo ships should be able to defend themselves to some degree. Maybe one npc ship would spawn if there was rip in progress in regulated sectors?

I like Jumpgate the idea of in-game reputation. People will get always what they deserve for their reputation.

Problem is with 2nd accounts. There is no way to track it. I can have couple mule accounts and one civving account. If I'm carefull, I can drive people or at least make life miserable for some without everybody knowing my mule accounts.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Algore

Why should some random biatch bounty hunter be allowed to poke their nose into something that had nothing to do with them. Private inter squad civ wars par example. I see little difference with reg/unreg tag abusers here. Lots of ways to look at things in life, God didn't invent selective vision, he just had too many beers that day and kinda screwed up the coding.

Define allowed. You could say that I'm not 'allowed' to hunt bounties because I'm downed every time I do. That aside, the squads involved know that civving a pilot allows civilians to shoot them at no risk, just like a hauler knows going into unreg allows them to be shot at no risk to the attacker. Space is dangerous, so is carrying a bounty. They knew that when they declared the civ war. If enough players desire different rules for intersquad warfare, they should speak up and make sure Istvan knows it's a priority to them.

Meanwhile, we've been allowed a good deal of freedom by the game designers in regards to civ ripping. To me, it's our responsibility to hunt bounties in order to protect that freedom. If we as players don't penalize civ rippers, sooner or later it will fall to the GMs to do it.

[Elmdor]

Translation: GG likes being an jerk, then saying he isn't on the forums.

[Radi]

I don't know what is the fuss about. GG = +1 kill

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Elmdor

Translation: GG likes being an jerk, then saying he isn't on the forums.

Actually, I'd rather you guys didn't civ rip, then I wouldn't feel obliged to go bounty hunting, and you wouldn't have to civ me for it.

[Istanbul]

And then you need to deal with the flip side of the coin by deling with the current "Grimgriz dilemma" where the bountied pilot cannot effectively defend himself when confronted by the bounty hunter. This is a particular problem for the "Justified Civ Rip" scenario.

Of course, when the pilot is as incompetent as GrimGriz, you shouldn't even have to kill them to defend themselves! Aren't I the only person GrimGriz can kill more than 1/10 times?

[Ambrosius]

What happens in RL when a vigilante hunts down and kills a fugitive? Isn't that a crime? (i.e. something that results in a bounty).

[Argyris]

Originally Posted by Istanbul

Of course, when the pilot is as incompetent as GrimGriz, you shouldn't even have to kill them to defend themselves! Aren't I the only person GrimGriz can kill more than 1/10 times?

Just get him into a sector with bigger fluxx, shoot him to armor and let them get the killshot

[Wolf]

Isnt it called griefing when the bounty hunter wont let the bountied pilot work off their bounty because they are to to busy getting their cookies off taking the bountied pilots bounty knowing that the bounty pilot can not defend themselves with out digging a deeper hole?