[Wild_Bill]

As mentioned on JOSSH forums, the deal with the Dragon makes no sense. It made little sense to have a size 4 shield, but makes even less sense to have a size 3 when Octavia doesn't MAKE a size 3 shield! Not a poor one, much less a great one, but none at all. Guess we need a new FM to make a Octavian shield for the premier HF. Wonderful...

[Algore]

The Craptor was crap as it was, at least with guns it had firepower. Now it is just utterly useless. As a combat ship it has been rendered completely unviable.
What do the quants and sols feel regarding their same class ship?

[GrimGriz]

I feel that they probably should have gotten a turn-rate nerf also...but until Jumpgate gets us to the point where we are making bombing runs on your space buildings I don't think it will matter.

I'm more interested in how the nado performs as a HF.

[spork]

I don't mind losing a ship that no one flew anyway (Monsoon). I almost never saw a Raptor in space either. If I wanted to fly a gunship, I flew a Nado. Or if I were an Oct, I'd fly a Dragon if the Nix wasn't gunship enough for me.

Like I said, it's a paradigm shift for bombers. They aren't combat craft anymore, they are heavy missile strike craft that require fighter escort to deliver their payload to non-dodging targets....they're "bombers." I'm not sold on the concept myself yet...but I won't shed tears over the old Raptor/Moon/Cuda.

However, I would have been really upset if the Nado had gotten the nerf and the Monsoon was left as our gimp of a HF.


No Oct sz3 shield? Heh...please...how often do people run on all home grown gear? Almost never in my experience. Interfactional dependencies are a good thing. There are plenty of big holes in gheto ship coverage for all factions for most ships, and a Defier/Resistor will fit in that sz3 slot long enough to find a real sz3 shield just the same way that a Collector will work as a crap PP until I can find an Insti.

[Wild_Bill]

Spork, I understand your logic and agree to a point. However, there is NO RP excuse for a faction building a HF that is only effective with a FOREIGN shield. It just doesn't make sense. I know I am the weakest of champions when it comes to RP but this is just crazy. I could understand if Octavia made a crappy size 3 shield or a really awesome size 2... oh wait a minute , we DID have a premier size 2 shield and it got NERFED!

For all his hard work and efforts, as near as I can tell the new patch is about as useful as the Craptor. Maybe instead of calling this the "mil patch" it should be the "craptor patch". Pfffttt!

[SingleShot]

WB sounds like a sol

[Radi]

heh

No matter what GMI does, people will whine. A constant in Jumpgate universe.

[GrimGriz]

So far, I seriously like it. I just wish they'd be more upfront with the RoE. I mean..you switch to military it says you have to 'live by the RoE' by the RoE isn't clearly indicated anywhere. My favorite part is the whole...that neutral faction in your space with mil tags MAY be running evil missions...and it's okay to down them if they are, but you can't really be sure if they are or not, and if they aren't you'll get a demerit...and we're not really going to explain how demerits work Have a nice day.

[Wild_Bill]

Okay, I've gotten slammed for my postings here and on JOSSH and much worse in-game. How is it, if someone complains about anything they are automattically labeled a whiner? So be it.

I'm whining because after 9 months of work/waiting/testing the patch has as many bugs as a wasp nest. The insurance is just the tip of the iceberg. Ask some of the mil tagged pilots (OV for instance) how much they lost last night.

I'm whining because the have a new feature that MIGHT be interesting, but you have to sign on for ten missions just to see what they offer!. Considering the aforementioned problems with the insurance and I think I'll take a pass on that one. Perhaps for a long time.

I'm whining because I can't just slip on HG tags and go tune my own faction beacons, I have to sign up for the above-mentioned tour. I don't like it either.

Right now I'm happy with my Craptor for the first time I've had it. Someone screwed up and it is like a GM prize ship, MUCH bettter than an anti-flux ranger or a Freighter with the big mining lasers. I cringe at the thought of it's eventual loss. Same for my Dragon. Losing it will suck rocks.

Regardless of the current bugs or the delay, there's very little in the patch that apeals to me and the way I chose to play. For those of you who are happy with the changes, rejoice! You have even more coming and it's still stuff so many of you wanted.

I've learned not to wish for things out loud, 'cause once you get them, you may discover you like them a WHOLE lot less than you thought you would. I cringe at the thought of what will happen when Istvan gets around to his Econ work. Then again, there may be darned few to see it if it ever happens.

Seems like each patch results in fewer pilots on-line. Even when the number build back up, they never seem to be quite as many as there were before the last patch, whatever it was and why ever they left.

So I'm a whiner. No one has run me off yet and I don't expect it will happen anytime soon either. What ever my faults, I've never been much of a quitter.

Sine Timor, Sine Par

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Wild_Bill

Okay, I've gotten slammed for my postings here and on JOSSH and much worse in-game. How is it, if someone complains about anything they are automattically labeled a whiner? So be it.

Jumpgate is like our fat ugly wife. Her breath may be bad, and she might have some issues, but we love her and don't like to hear people badmouth her.

[Algore]

I still think the whole MT tag thing is a good one, irrespective of obvious bugs that come about with new patches. The insurance bug is a bummer, but I'm sure it will be remedied not in due course, but of a matter of urgency.
Yes I agree that having to sign up for 10 missions to flip beacons is a bummer, but afaik grey beacons can still be flipped while civ? If you are flipping non native beacons there should be risk involved there, and simply being able to go civ after a run from SC-Wake due to possible risks was not good for the game. It was pretty funny last night flipping GL with several Sols approaching me, as I'm sure it was for Reece when he returned the favour in DG.
Something that again brings up my eternal doubts of the test team is why the whole not being able to dock at public pos or non native faction stations was not thought out more carefully. An assault into deep Sol or Quant is now a suicide mission, as it will be for our adversaries. The only way to get around this will be to either get friendly with POS owners in non native sectors, or simply have second accounts with different factions. Both of these have their own problems.
I'm not entirely sure it was a good idea introducing ship balance changes with the military patch either. Infact I know it wasn't, but hey, what would I know about that.
I just hope that Ist will take into account our views over the coming weeks and take some of that onboard. We have that few people online we are basically a test server, just, with pilots like myself that are not all "yes men".
I have to wonder were scenarios fully tested, or just theories................

Eitherway I think this will add something to the game, it just needs to be refined. The question is, is Ist willing to refine to demand?
I'm a bit irked too from a personal pov that Gimli/Doe feels his game has been taken away from him, as his only ships (Craptor/Q Bomber) have effectively been nerfed into oblivion. Like him or loath him, he was the only person that spent the time to master them. It's kinda like the Phoon really, few people spend the time to master it preferring to fly the easier MF, would SS think it fair if they proxy nerfed it to make it "easier" to fly yet less effective?

See you all in space, well some of you

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Algore

Something that again brings up my eternal doubts of the test team is why the whole not being able to dock at public pos or non native faction stations was not thought out more carefully. An assault into deep Sol or Quant is now a suicide mission, as it will be for our adversaries. The only way to get around this will be to either get friendly with POS owners in non native sectors, or simply have second accounts with different factions. Both of these have their own problems.

Has anyone confirmed whether or not you can be invited to POS in hostile territory?

[spork]

WB could have run 10 Courier missions (same as civilian Transport) in the time it took to type all that.

Obviously the insurance bug was a problem, but that was already fixed last night. And Patrol Missions were bugged and removed quickly. What else is so buggy as to require hyperbolic analogy?

I hear you on the beac tuning. But the alternative is far worse, IMO. Civs being able to retune beacs is just way wrong, IMO. You can go Pirate to retune them I believe, if you just want to use a quick tag change for beacing.

The Defier nerf will make it possible to fly the big ships into battle, I think. Hopefully it wasn't nerfed too far, but there are lots of interesting choices now. The Resistor is a pretty good sz2 shield now. The Sols cried for YEARS about not making even a crappy sz3 engine. How many Sols have you seen in the last 1 year actually using the Travant Plus since it was boosted to a crappy sz3? Puhlease. Not a 1 unless he was on a very short trip to find Guzzlers.

While I am sorry that the 3-5 active bomber pilots in space "lost" their ship... I think the Nix, Truder and new Nado are pretty nice substitute ships for the gunship/missile spam crowd. Again, I don't feel real strongly about the bomber recasting either way. Just offering alternatives since I don't think we'll ever see bombers as gunboats again.

The BIGGEST appeal in this patch for non-pvp pilots is the fact that all the pvp pilots will be focused a lot more now on each other (i.e. ignoring Civs). And MTs will get some really nasty penalties if they get too many demerits (downing Civs is a good way to rack them up quickly). And working off punishments for messing with Civs is not nearly as trivial as it used to be (idle a day or 2, run a few transport missions in a ranger...or go flux it off in Aman Leap...someone pointed out yesterday that Fluxing missions now require a dock at the station you selected). So I think the claims made by several folks that the patch was "only" for the PvP crowd are extremely short sighted.

Regarding not docking, I always thought it was amazingly lame that enemy factionalists could run and dock and hide in virtually every sector we fought in, even my faction's sectors since they have POSes there too. That was the huge problem that POS introduced into the game, and I'm glad to see the dock-a-thon go...at least for reg space. Having a 2nd account owning a POS in enemy space won't help you if your factions are Hostile. I agree that this will kill deep incursions and will kill staying power which is a real bumber (even in light of RBs and DTs...which don't provide real staying power IMO and detract from your gunpower). As a workaround, I would like to see more refuel/repair facilities put into space since they are beacon dependant, and I'd like a new FF top-off facility. That way if you do win the fight and control the sector for few mins, you can refresh but you cannot dock and hide. That or maybe just let people dock at full faction stations but not at POSes, though there's no real logic to that from a factional military POV.

I also wish the RoE were more clearly explained. But I don't think it'll take too long for people to figure it all out through trial and error and post it all. I hope.