[netburnr]

You have to remember though, to slow down the fights you have to make the shields stronger, which in turn can cause other major problems.

Can I ask a simple question....why didn't you do your learning in the sim where you simply relaunch and try again. When I played there were always people in the sim willing to help people learn how to fight, myself included.

[no_limit]

i agree with you montaugh completly. it took me HOUR upon HOUR in the sim to atleast be able to put up a decent fight but i still get ripped up in RS pretty good by alot of people. with the exception of a few who are afraid to fight me for some reason.

and y'know another thing that i wouldnt mind seeing changed is the way the sheild animation (atleast the quant one) blinds me (literally i have sensitive eyes) when i use lazers but not ammo. the brghtness of the lazers (any color) on top of the shield just does me wrong.

[Algore]

I'd say you need more practise no_limit. Better still get someone who knows how to teach, to teach you.
Many different tactics are nescessary to be successful in RS. A circle is just one.

Regards
Al

[Montaugh]

Originally Posted by netburnrol

You have to remember though, to slow down the fights you have to make the shields stronger, which in turn can cause other major problems.

Can I ask a simple question....why didn't you do your learning in the sim where you simply relaunch and try again. When I played there were always people in the sim willing to help people learn how to fight, myself included.

Well combat can be rebalanced between more armor/shield and having the weapons do less damage then do they now. Slowing down combat doesn't have to be about just raising how much the current shields can take. Ship profile, shields, armor and weapon damage all play a part. Rather then balancing for more offense like they did in Classic they could focus more on the defensive nature and reduce incoming damage so that you don't have that pop, pop, pop and you're dead effect in Jumpgate Evolution.

I've had three accounts since jumgate beta and I did learn to pvp in the sim. Sorry if I implied that I hadn't learned in the sim. Gohlem was my last account and the one I'm best known as. It took me so many deaths and so long to do.. and this is with people teaching me. Jack and Hand taught me the basics of circling, Innom would give me the odd tip and to not joust or if you joust always go over and never under, even Rollio had a few words of advice but still I had to die over and over and over again to learn anything.

I really started picking up pvp though when Mr. Kat and I would just jokingly go into the sim with size one lasers. Suddenly the fights would last longer and I improved far faster then in a situation where the fight was POP, POP dead.

Fights like what Mr. Kat and I had let me work on my aim as well as fighting in untraditional circles.. horizontal rather then Vertical circles for example. It let me work on evasion and using my surroundings (random roid sim was a blast to fight in). Most importantly though because the fights were longer.. I had far more fun engaging in pvp. I hated fights that were over in seconds.. no matter if I was the winner or loser.

The sim can only teach you so much. It does help with the basics.. like aim, always going over and never under a ship. The stuff must learn to even have a chance. When you hit real space though.. everything changes and you don't have the unlimited deaths that you do in the sim. Most can't afford to die all the time and as players they will get more and more frustrated with each real space death.

It must have taken me thousands upon thousands of deaths I am so glad that sim stats are not recorded because I'm fairly sure I'd have the most sim deaths to date. Between all of my accounts I must have pushed 1000-1200 of total playtime.. of that at least 200-300 hours were spent in the simulator.

I think slowing down the pvp no matter how they do it, reduce damage, increase shields or armor.. but slowing the pace down will decrease the learning curve it takes to become competent in the pvp aspect of the game and overall offers a much more enjoyable play experience.

[dahalb]

I would like to see combat time increased too. I really don't care how they do it either so long as there is a balance kept between the ships themselves.

[no_limit]

y'know, i'd hate to do it, but im gonna throw in a suggestion from freelancer.

nanobots and sheild batteries. they could be equipped as modx's and be single use only. what do you think?

[Tritian]

On the other side of the coin, longer combat times pretty much kills the lone pilots ability to handle 2on1 situations, which often require the ability to kill one of the pilots quickly.

We already had the shield output tripled back in Beta to cope w/ this 'problem'. I think things are fine the way they are now.

[netburnr]

Exactly. If you make it harder, or slow down the fight, then group fighting is going to massively change. Most fights (used to be) in space where multiple people. How would you like it if you spent 5 minutes getting someone down, only for their backup to arrive and they run away while others start pounding you, now instead of going instantly pop, you are taking damage and switch targets, spend another few minutes to get another person down to 10, and they run, rinse and repeat.

Then there is always the problem of some types of ships do more damage. A fighter on fighter battle will last longer, but then if you try to go up against a bomber the time will be shorter because of the larger/more guns, so then you will want even more shields or whatever.

[dahalb]

5 minutes is waaaaay too long for a 1v1. I dont think its unreasonable to have a 30-40 second 1v1 tho. Time a 1v1 in the sim, my guess is it takes about 15 seconds. Obviously the ships fighting will make a difference but, fighter v fighter or bomber v bomber, i dont think 30-40 seconds is unreasonable.

[Tim]

True true.. it'd be a shame to have the type of interaction where one pilot could rescue another. heck no!

[Montaugh]

Originally Posted by netburnrol

Exactly. If you make it harder, or slow down the fight, then group fighting is going to massively change. Most fights (used to be) in space where multiple people. How would you like it if you spent 5 minutes getting someone down, only for their backup to arrive and they run away while others start pounding you, now instead of going instantly pop, you are taking damage and switch targets, spend another few minutes to get another person down to 10, and they run, rinse and repeat.

Then there is always the problem of some types of ships do more damage. A fighter on fighter battle will last longer, but then if you try to go up against a bomber the time will be shorter because of the larger/more guns, so then you will want even more shields or whatever.

I'd love to spend five or 10 minutes in a real space fight with each side gaining and losing ground. Think about what you just said burn.. that is a good constant action of almost 20 minutes with squads fighting over a sector of space. Reinforcements given time to arrive on both side until one side or the other retreats or is wiped out. That seems pretty cool to me and something that may get more people involved. Currently we have a fighting lasting meer seconds for new players who need to spend 10-20 minutes just to get back to the action in some cases.. only to die meer seconds after that. Now which is more likely to attract new players.. fights that last a longer period or fights over in seconds.. sure travel time would be the same but the fights would be much more epic in feel and not as frustrating towards new players.

Which space battles are really remembered? The battles that are over in seconds or the battles where squads are fighting across multiple sectors for a longer period of time.

Your other comment about Fighter vs Bomber.. yeah the bomber does more damage. You can have a nice scale in the fighting class of ships from fastest and most manuverable all the way to slow as a turtle and hitting like a ton of bricks. Yes the bomber should have the offensive advantage if the fighter and bomber just slug it out.. but the fighter would have the manuverability advantage so they could choose to run or if they were the better pilots still take them out.

You look at the least amount of time someone wants to spend in a combat.. I say thirty seconds is ok for off class ships being greatly out gunned.. that's thirty seconds of constant bombardment. Thirty seconds is long enough to make up for your mistakes and to try something new and change your tatics. Add in the speed and agility that thirty seconds might mean I could last 2 or more minutes and have a real shot at taking out that bomber with my fighter one on one even if I'm an unskilled pilot.

Between skilled pilots and squads a fight will be over faster because skilled pilots will double and tripple team targets. But at the same time they will be double the tripple teamed. It just seems to me larger battles would be far more interesting for all involved if they lasted longer and involved more tatics and positioning.

[Sephiroth]

Okay but a 10-20 minute fight would never occur in Jumpgate. As soon as both sides have expended their resources they tend to retreat to their station for fuel and FFs and missiles.

Slowing down the fights doesn't need to be done IMO. The game already allows you to slow down the fight, learn how to fly evasively when necessariy and you wont die in 5 seconds. It's supposed to be about skill right? Flight skill is a part of that.