[Karash]

Righto, and I agree...when I use gamebreaking I generally refer to the current JG1 game design. Who knows what ND has planned for Jumpgate Evolution, but I hope they can give us a viable capital ship game system that is fun and not over powered.

This forum is all about hope...at least until the game comes out

[alphabet]

Yeah, after the game comes out the forum will all be about whines..

hehe

[Nanaki]

Personally, I would think something -is- broken if everyone except the newbs were piloting capital ships.

Capital ships are not designed to assault, as much as hold territory. Fighters are great at assaulting, but due to the eventual need to resupply, they have absolutly no way of actually holding territory without a Carrier or Station's support. POSes were a horrible idea, since there was no way to get rid of enemy POSes, and were rather cheap. In addition, easily deployed. Theres something wrong when you can fit a POS and 2 Modules for it on a Gust.

POSes should still be in the game, but should be shielded, destructable, and also possessing it's own turrets (Which should be configurable similar to how a Capital ship's turrets can be configured). They should be as cheap as they are now, but their destructability will make them a less common sight, as squads will gladly raid enemy space to destroy their POSes.

Capital ships will be more difficult to destory, as, capital ship pilots would likely hide their Capital ship before logging off.

[RIDIC]

Originally Posted by Nanaki

So, what you are saying is that an indestructable deployable station and highly limited deployment times in space is preferable to capital ships which can be attacked and destroyed therefore preventing enemy resupply entirely?In addition, Capital ships can always be regulated by cost, and not covered by insurance. Im not asking for Capital ships to be common, heck, seeing more than one capital ship together should be considered a 'large fleet' by all standards. But I am asking for more than the 'nothing' we got right now.

I think I need to clarify - there is another thread about the POS issue. Without trying to hijack this thread, I'll briefly explain how this works in my head. Squads are limited to 1 SOS (Squad Owned Stations). These are built in non factional space. That being said the squad leader would be forced to find a desirable tactical location. Limit the ability to dismantle and rebuild these to x amount of moves per month and now you have limited these amazingly indestructible hulks, yet still allow them to serve some tactical advantage. POS should have never been a thing each pilot could afford.

Originally Posted by Nanaki

Some have already said that they would happily pilot capital ships, and just because you have no interest in capital ships does not mean that others wont. I personally would be spending most my time in a capital ship as soon as I got one.

The bold line expressed to me - that these will not be very hard to obtain, to the point that each player will be able to obtain one. I may be wrong, but you never expressed any limitation to the number that could be in existence at a time. You do seem a little sensitive to the fact that some of us have different views. Keep in mind that because you want capital ships does not mean that others do.

[Injustice]

What I mean by game breaking is:

(Hypthetically applying an environment with cap ships to current Jumpgate fundamentals)

Everyone above level 44 flying around in their factions' respective capital ship(s), meaning little or no variety. Whereas now the guy going the other way through the Gurge could be in a TOW, a ranger, a fighter, a miner...

As is, a good pilot flying a LF can kill an unskilled pilot flying, well, anything basically. With cap ships, the LF pilot would see his shots bounce off the hull like so many spitwads.

The single most frustrating aspect of games like EVE and WoW (and the reason I stopped playing them), was the importance they placed on "stature". In WoW, a players gear and class played a larger role in the game than how well said player could mash buttons (since that's all the game amounted to). The same can be said of EVE in the form of skills obtained and funds available, since EVE was all about who had the most coin.

Like some of you have mentioned, Jumpgate Evolution isn't likely to cause a mass exodus from those games. And it won't attract much attention if it appears to be "just another MMO". I would think that potential new players (giving the free trial period a go) that see vets flying around in cap ships that take countless hours to obtain would be less inclined to continue than if they were told by those same vets that the same ship they fly, with the same equipment, can be had within a few weeks (or sooner if you're hardcore).

[Nanaki]

I think I need to clarify - there is another thread about the POS issue. Without trying to hijack this thread, I'll briefly explain how this works in my head. Squads are limited to 1 SOS (Squad Owned Stations). These are built in non factional space. That being said the squad leader would be forced to find a desirable tactical location. Limit the ability to dismantle and rebuild these to x amount of moves per month and now you have limited these amazingly indestructible hulks, yet still allow them to serve some tactical advantage. POS should have never been a thing each pilot could afford.

Which does not change my opinion that I think indestructable player or squad-deployable stations are a bad idea. Anything that can be created by players should also be destroyable by players.

The italicized line express to me - that these will be not very hard to obtain, to the point that each player will be able to obtain one. I may be wrong, but you never expressed any limitation to the number that could be in existence at a time. You do seem a little sensitive to the fact that some of us have different views. Keep in mind that because you want capital ships does not mean that others do not.

Money and resources should be a significant limiting factor. Sure, a single player can work singlemindedly an entire year straight and get a capital ship in the game. But at the same time, if there is too many Capital ships, the resulting Capital ship vs Capital ship battles will cut the number back down to reasonable levels. This is what seperates the skilled/lucky capital ship pilots from the unskilled/unlucky. Skilled capital ship pilots will survive for long lengths of time before losing their capital ship. They wont win every battle, but they will plan an escape route should things go bad.

No matter what you do, unless every battle capital ships get involved in do not result in at least one capital ship being destroyed, than Capital ships will be a rare sight on the battlefield. If Capital ships perchance become common, than it means that nobody is using them in PvP, or that they are getting in minor skirmishes rather than all-out battles.

In addition, should the worst ever happen, and you have to face a Capital ship with nothing but strike craft. You do have a secret weapon, its called the Bomber. Several bombers, with nuclear weapons (3-4 nukes that do 60K damage each in addition to 2 Torpedoes that do 15K+ damage for just one bomber), can ruin an unescorted Frigate's day easily. Which also begs the question. What purpose do bombers serve if the only thing they can bomb are flux infestations?

There will always be the PvE Capital ship players, who will be doing mining runs, transporting stuff, artifact hunting and fighting flux. They wont likely lose their capital ship (Unless the Flux hit somewhere really hard, or they got attacked by a particularly organized/armed group of pirates) but they arent getting involved in PvP either, and PvP Balance is where most of the discussion is revolving around.

Everyone above level 44 flying around in their factions' respective capital ship(s), meaning little or no variety. Whereas now the guy going the other way through the Gurge could be in a TOW, a ranger, a fighter, a miner...

Why would they be in a Capital ship over a TOW, Ranger, or Miner? Or even a fighter for that matter? Capital ships cannot intercept enemy fighters.

[Karash]

Well i think we might be forgetting what the economics behind 'buying' a capital ship would be? I mean in Jumpgate Classic, you just buy your ship and its yours no matter how many times you blow up.

Obviously Jumpgate Evolution would have to have an entirely different Economy as a basis FIRST before capital ships entered the picture.

[Nanaki]

Well i think we might be forgetting what the economics behind 'buying' a capital ship would be? I mean in JGC, you just buy your ship and its yours no matter how many times you blow up.

I am aware of this, I also said that I dont think capital ships should be covered under insurance. If you lose it, you really do lose it. Capital ships should hurt, but it should also hurt losing one. This means that we wont be seeing capital ships in PvP unless it was a epic battle over something very important.

[Ikeprof]

Though this may seem unrelated, I can recall many a time in Aces High II where I was lined up and just milliseconds away from touching down on the flight deck of a carrier when someone decided to turn the darn thing.

Given the newtonian based flight model of Jumpgate, docking "through" a portal could be a trick when the darn thing shifts to the left 200 foot due to the "captain" turning the ship when you are 10 meters away at 100v.

[Nanaki]

Well than, let him know that you are docking and not to touch the controls while your going through the sequence.

[Ikeprof]

LOL

ya think?

Hmmm...sorta on a side topic.

Given that sometimes fleet operations include pilots that are outside of your own squad (as it should be), it would almost seem as if docking "permissions" on a Carrier class ship would have to be "settable" at a squad level if not on a pilot by pilot basis.

Certainly wouldn't do to have enemy combatants or random people docking, re-arming and taking off.

[Nanaki]

Permissions to use Capital ships and Stations should be more configurable. For example, I want everyone (With exception of enemy combatants) to be able to dock with my carrier and trade. In addition, they can repair, refuel, and rearm, but would have to pay a fee. Members of my squad and close allies will have to pay no fee to use the ship's services, and can use the ship's storage.