[Nanaki]

How do they take away from the fighter pilot experiance? Giving people an option between fighters and non-fighters is not taking away, it simply allows people to pilot something else other than a fighter.

[Injustice]

Originally Posted by Nanaki

How do they take away from the fighter pilot experiance? Giving people an option between fighters and non-fighters is not taking away, it simply allows people to pilot something else other than a fighter.

This is a joke, right?

[daslog]

I was thinking the same thing. Unless he want's Capital Ships that are manuverable, which would just be more unbalancing.

I can just see it now: Six months into the game, -DSA-v2.0 invades quant core with 10 capital ships, all parked at the station and just blow away everything in the sector that moves.

No Thanks.

[Nanaki]

I can just see it now: Six months into the game, -DSA-v2.0 invades quant core with 10 capital ships, all parked at the station and just blow away everything in the sector that moves.

So your assuming that Quant will not have it's own capital ships and bombers? Or do you think that Quant will be stupid enough to focous entirely on Fightercraft and Anti-fighter abilities, just like in the current Jumpgate, and pretend Capital Ships didnt exist.

So your assuming that forcing everyone into fighters or freighters, regardless of weither they are actually interested in fighters/freighters or not, is adding to the 'fighter pilot' experiance? You do realize that people can be interested in Space Sims, but not want to bother with fighters, right?

[sarcasm]
From everything I read and seen, Jumpgate is a Space Sim, not a Fighter Pilot Sim. If I was ever mis-informed as to Jumpgate's genre, please let me know. I could look elsewhere for my space sim fix.
[/sarcasm]

[Injustice]

Originally Posted by Nanaki

So your assuming that Quant will not have it's own capital ships and bombers? Or do you think that Quant will be stupid enough to focous entirely on Fightercraft and Anti-fighter abilities, just like in the current Jumpgate, and pretend Capital Ships didnt exist.

So your assuming that forcing everyone into fighters or freighters, regardless of weither they are actually interested in fighters/freighters or not, is adding to the 'fighter pilot' experiance? You do realize that people can be interested in Space Sims, but not want to bother with fighters, right?

[sarcasm]
From everything I read and seen, Jumpgate is a Space Sim, not a Fighter Pilot Sim. If I was ever mis-informed as to Jumpgate's genre, please let me know. I could look elsewhere for my space sim fix.
[/sarcasm]

And you're assuming that forcing everyone to worry about having cap ships, regardless of weither they want them or not, is adding to the "space sim" experience? You do realize that everyone that plays Jumpgate Evolution will need to worry about fighters, freighters, scouts, shuttles, miners, and rangers because they'll all be flying them before they could conceivably fly a cap ship, right?

The bottom line is cap ships serve no practical purpose except to give their pilots an obvious advantage over those who don't have one. I for one don't want to see Jumpgate Evolution reduced to a simple contest between the "haves" and the "have nots" just to attract a bunch of cap ship fanboys. The game should always be about how you fly, not what you can fly.

[Nanaki]

And you're assuming that forcing everyone to worry about having cap ships, regardless of weither they want them or not, is adding to the "space sim" experience?

So you avoid them. Practically everything in the game is faster than a capital ship. If they start camping station entrances, give the stations some anti-capital ship guns. So what a fighter pilot cant 'pwn' everything anymore. Without something to bomb, Bombers have no purpose (Except that nobody is arguing for the bombers).

The fact that a fighter pilot, with certain equipment, can down anything in the sky enforces the 'One Size Fits All' Mentality that many are displeased with in Jumpgate.

I for one don't want to see Jumpgate Evolution reduced to a simple contest between the "haves" and the "have nots" just to attract a bunch of cap ship fanboys. The game should always be about how you fly, not what you can fly.

Jumpgate Classic is already that way. Someone who has played the game for a long time in a Heavy Fighter with an artied out ship will always trash someone who has only been playing the game for a week and only owns a Intensity, Interceptor, or Invader with only Solrain equipment.

The only difference, the only players left in Jumpgate are those who are the Haves, the Have nots have all left already.

As for capital ships requiring no skill, we disagree on that. Bigger, slower and less manuverable =/= requiring less skill. Freighter pilots will understand what I am talking about.

[Karash]

If there was an expanding gameplay reason for capital ships...it would be a better argument. Just think of people matter farming with huge cargo holds and being able to jump from sector to sector, drastically decreasing their vulnerability.

[daslog]

All Cap ships are doing is changing the end game combat from Fighter combat to Cap ship combat. I don't think that adds anything to the game.

If anything, it reminds me of when those stupid heavy fighters were added to the game. PvP combat became boring boring boring.

[Injustice]

So you avoid them. Practically everything in the game is faster than a capital ship. If they start camping station entrances, give the stations some anti-capital ship guns. So what a fighter pilot cant 'pwn' everything anymore. Without something to bomb, Bombers have no purpose (Except that nobody is arguing for the bombers).

It goes without saying that any cap ships in Jumpgate Evolution would be combat oriented. We PvPers don't "avoid" other PvPers. Bombers can readily be adapted for anti-POS duty. So instead of "fighter pilots 'pwning' everything" you'd rather have cap ship pilots flying around with impunity. Nice.

The fact that a fighter pilot, with certain equipment, can down anything in the sky enforces the 'One Size Fits All' Mentality that many are displeased with in Jumpgate.

This is from your own extensive Jumpgate experience I gather? Show me a list of people that left the game because it didn't have cap ships, and I'll show you a list of people that shouldn't play the game.

Jumpgate Classic is already that way. Someone who has played the game for a long time in a Heavy Fighter with an artied out ship will always trash someone who has only been playing the game for a week and only owns a Intensity, Interceptor, or Invader.

The only difference, the only players left in Jumpgate are those who are the Haves, the Have nots have all left already.

Ask most of the veteran PvPers which ships they prefer and whether or not they use artifacts in them.

As for capital ships requiring no skill, we disagree on that. Bigger, slower and less manuverable =/= requiring less skill. Freighter pilots will understand what I am talking about.

Here's what I think. I think you are (or were) a freighter pilot that wants to get into PvP in Jumpgate Evolution, but you know you can't hang with the hardcore PvPers so you're looking for that ever-illusive I WIN button.

[Nanaki]

Matter farming is another issue entirely, an economic flaw of the game. I would rather ditch matter farming than keep it and ditch the idea of Capital ships.

Not to be rude, but have you read the thread at all? Capital ships are supposed to do something that fighters, in their present form (without POS) cannot do at all, take and hold territory. I always felt that the current factional conflicts were pointless, since there was no way to destroy enemy stations, economy, or control over a starsystem without a GM manipulating things behind the scenes.

Two of the three proposed capital ships are carriers, and therefore, inherantly use fighters as their primary offensive weapons. The non-carrier capital ship also being the smallest of the capital ships.

If someone took ten frigates, and only ten frigates, to blockade Quantar Core, than im sure that they can be repelled with enough Bombers armed with nuclear missiles, assuming you had no capital ships around.

[Injustice]

Yeah, I read the entire thread, and I still stand by my original statement regarding cap ships of any kind. Jumpgate has always been about how you fly, not what you fly. Introducing a totally new class of ship, drastically different from the rest, and only available to a select few (who, by the way, acquired them through economics and diplomacy, not combat prowess) would kill that concept completely.

[alphabet]

...and I stand by Nanaki.

Injustice you are speculating on something we all have no idea about and coming away with a bad taste in your mouth. The cap ship will be play tested and balanced. I would hope ND has at least learned that lesson.

Every space game Ive played has cap ships. Almost every space movie Ive ever seen had some type of cap ship. Every gamer is different. You are opposed to cap ships and poo poo on the idea, but there are other players who would like to see them. I believe you go from the assumption that cap ships wouldnt work in EP2, that however doesnt make your argument right about Jumpgate Evolution.

I like seeing those big bohemeths in space sims, and my opinion is that Jumpgate Evolution should have them.