[Injustice]

...and I stand by Nanaki.

Injustice you are speculating on something we all have no idea about and coming away with a bad taste in your mouth. The cap ship will be play tested and balanced. I would hope ND has at least learned that lesson.

The cap ship argument has been around as long as Jumpgate has existed, it's been hashed and rehashed so many times it's not even funny. And every time the same conclusion has been drawn. You CAN'T balance capital ships against single pilot fighters and bombers, not without getting silly.

In laymen's terms, what I'm referring to is the concept that, in a given situation, Pilot A, flying a Nix, has an even chance against Pilot B, flying a Phoon. He doesn't react by saying "Oh, he's in a Phoon, I need to change ships to stand a chance of killing him". Your interpretation is virtually the exact opposite, making a pilots ship more important than how he flies it, which just kills the concept of skill-based combat altogether.

Every space game Ive played has cap ships. Almost every space movie Ive ever seen had some type of cap ship. Every gamer is different. You are opposed to cap ships and poo poo on the idea, but there are other players who would like to see them. I believe you go from the assumption that cap ships wouldnt work in EP2, that however doesnt make your argument right about Jumpgate Evolution.

I like seeing those big bohemeths in space sims, and my opinion is that Jumpgate Evolution should have them.

I go from the assumption that cap ships don't belong in the Jumpgate MMO period. Regardless of whether every space game and every space movie you've seen has them, this isn't Star Trek: The MMO or Battlestar Galactica Online, this is Jumpgate, and my opinion is they don't belong here.

[alphabet]

I go from the assumption that cap ships don't belong in the Jumpgate MMO period. Regardless of whether every space game and every space movie you've seen has them, this isn't Star Trek: The MMO or Battlestar Galactica Online, this is Jumpgate, and my opinion is they don't belong here.

Well you have your opinion and I have mine..

I dont see where you got the idea that a cap ship would be overpowering to a fighter.. quite the opposite really. Cap ships fight other cap ships, bombers can kill cap ships and fighters protect cap ships from the bombers...

how in the world do you get a cap ship is so overpowered against a fighter? The scenario I described above requires teamwork and people working together for both sides. I dont see how this is bad for the game?

this is Jumpgate

No its not Jumpgate, this is Jumpgate Evolution. Like I said before, we dont know how Jumpgate Evolution is going to be yet. To assume its going to be EP2 with EP2 rulees is just silly.

[Sephiroth]

I fully agree with Injustice.

[Karash]

I think the Jumpgate Evolution Community would have to reach into the 1000s during peak hours before Capital ships become a real gameplay idea. Just a side thought.

[Nanaki]

The cap ship argument has been around as long as Jumpgate has existed, it's been hashed and rehashed so many times it's not even funny. And every time the same conclusion has been drawn. You CAN'T balance capital ships against single pilot fighters and bombers, not without getting silly.

In practice, a 1 vs 1 Fight will be a stalemate. The fighter wont be able to kill the capship, but the capship wont be able to hit the fighter with it's anti-fighter guns. If the fighter gets blown up, than that means he probably strayed a little too close to the capital ship.

Does every fight have to result in someone getting blown up?

In laymen's terms, what I'm referring to is the concept that, in a given situation, Pilot A, flying a Nix, has an even chance against Pilot B, flying a Phoon. He doesn't react by saying "Oh, he's in a Phoon, I need to change ships to stand a chance of killing him". Your interpretation is virtually the exact opposite, making a pilots ship more important than how he flies it, which just kills the concept of skill-based combat altogether.

If you want your skill-based combat so much, why dont we just have one ship class in the game, one weapon, one powerplant, one missile, and the game becomes 100% Skill.

Your argument is inherantly flawed for that reason...

Bombers can readily be adapted for anti-POS duty.

...and seems to be only serving the purpose of trying to create an artifical, baseless 'argument' to not have Capital Ships. You already proven your willingness to have specific ships designed to counter certain other types of ships (or stations).

I go from the assumption that cap ships don't belong in the Jumpgate MMO period. Regardless of whether every space game and every space movie you've seen has them, this isn't Star Trek: The MMO or Battlestar Galactica Online, this is Jumpgate, and my opinion is they don't belong here.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you do not own the Jumpgate franchise. The 'Discussion' on weither to add Capital Ships or not will not be won by either side until I hear personally from the Jumpgate Evolution Developers (Scorch) on weither they will be added, or not.

Last I heard, theres nothing set in stone for Jumpgate's endgame.

[Sephiroth]

You are entitled to your opinion, but you do not own the Jumpgate franchise. The 'Discussion' on weither to add Capital Ships or not will not be won by either side until I hear personally from the Jumpgate Evolution Developers (Scorch) on weither they will be added, or not.

Last I heard, theres nothing set in stone for Jumpgate's endgame.

lol wow dude, chill, no one is suggesting that anything is set in stone and no one has claimed they own the Jumpgate franchise. Injustice is merely stating his opinion. Don't need to get all defensive just because he disagrees.

[Wild_Bill]

Nanaki, you are obviously heavily invested in the Capital Ship concept and I applaud that. As Alphabet points out, anything going into Jumpgate Evolution will (hopefully) be heavily tested.

I personally see Capital ships only as carriers (to avoid all balancing issues) who's job is to move large numbers of single pilot ships long distances quickly to a set location and to support them until the issue is settled. I also see them as such a unique resource that they should only be factional operated, not personal or even squad. Built by FMs and used only after heavy RP by the Factions. I still like them as a new and updated version of WOW that was so popular.

Injustice does not seem to believe Capital Ships bring anything worthwhile to the game and he may well be right. How they'll actually be used or if they even appear in the game are all still to be decided. So no one should get locked into a position or take any of it too personally. We all are waiting to see if Scorch or anyone else with the power to make decisions is going to give the player-base direction as to what will or will not be in the game.

[Nanaki]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

lol wow dude, chill, no one is suggesting that anything is set in stone and no one has claimed they own the Jumpgate franchise. Injustice is merely stating his opinion. Don't need to get all defensive just because he disagrees.

It would probably be best if we all backed off, took a deep breath, and looked at this objectively instead of throwing rhetoric and assumptions. Listing concerns is a good thing, but I think the suggestion should be given a chance to address the concerns before throwing out the idea entirely, as some are advocating.

[daslog]

Originally Posted by Nanaki

In practice, a 1 vs 1 Fight will be a stalemate. The fighter wont be able to kill the capship, but the capship wont be able to hit the fighter with it's anti-fighter guns. If the fighter gets blown up, than that means he probably strayed a little too close to the capital ship.

Does every fight have to result in someone getting blown up?

Yes.

If you want your skill-based combat so much, why dont we just have one ship class in the game, one weapon, one powerplant, one missile, and the game becomes 100% Skill.

Your argument is inherantly flawed for that reason...

Not everything has to be the same for pilot skill to be the deciding factor. I can think of many Combat sims and First person shooters that allow for a variety of planes and classes, and they all rely on pilot skill.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Nanaki

It would probably be best if we all backed off, took a deep breath, and looked at this objectively instead of throwing rhetoric and assumptions. Listing concerns is a good thing, but I think the suggestion should be given a chance to address the concerns before throwing out the idea entirely, as some are advocating.

The concerns have been addressed and I still do not believe that cap ships have a place in Jumpgate.

[Injustice]

Coming from the PvP community, our biggest concern is keeping it skill based. It is called Player versus Player for a reason...

[xerout]

Originally Posted