[Nanaki]

One thing I didn't see mentioned is what happens to player A's cap ship when he is not logged on? Does it just appear or disappear in space when he logs?

No, it remains in real-space regardless of weither the owner is logged on or off.

I have read this thread and the one on POS, ya know the one that says POS should be gone from jumpgate. The one that says POS totally screwed up PvP and the community. Some of the ideas for these cap ship sound just like what POS do, except you can move a cap ship around some. They also sound like phat loot items. I hate phat loot. It's why I do not play WOW or EVE any more. Cap ships would become for power gamers only. I do not have 40 plus hours a week to play a game and with jumpgate (and wwii online) I didn't need to to still be a par with the jobless twits that do. The only factor that separates me from them is skill of flying not hours played, as it should be.

1: You can destroy cap ships. You cant destroy POSes.
2: If you really want to kill that obnoxious idiot whos constantly ganking newbies with his capship, blow up his capital ship with bombers.
3: Capital ships are too slow to really be effective for ganking. Any gank targets can easily dart in and out of the Capital ship's maximum range.
4: You can stop your enemy from manufacturing capital ships.
5: POSes never added to the economy, and took away instead. Heavy Carriers can add tremendously to the economy by supporting mining operations in remote, resource-rich zones. Light Carriers can have limited storage to prevent the run-away hoarding that happened with POSes.

[leadtail]

Originally Posted by Nanaki

No, it remains in real-space regardless of weither the owner is logged on or off.

Then how is this better than making POS destorable when the owner is logged off? Wouldn't the same TRI "Sorry to inform you....." message just piss off and cause players to quite because their uber expensive cap ship got toasted while they where not around to defend it?

1: You can destroy cap ships. You cant destroy POSes.
2: If you really want to kill that obnoxious idiot whos constantly ganking newbies with his capship, blow up his capital ship with bombers.
3: Capital ships are too slow to really be effective for ganking. Any gank targets can easily dart in and out of the Capital ship's maximum range.
4: You can stop your enemy from manufacturing capital ships.
5: POSes never added to the economy, and took away instead. Heavy Carriers can add tremendously to the economy by supporting mining operations in remote, resource-rich zones. Light Carriers can have limited storage to prevent the run-away hoarding that happened with POSes.

1. See above. So to keep cap ship owners happy they can not be destroyable while logged off. Which means they would be the main targets in any engagement. Again leading to pissed off and quiting players when it does go boom. So now what make them undestroyable? Cap ship = POS.
2. Again if he logs and you can blow it up it piss him off and he quites. It's a ganker so who cares, but what about ones who are using it as designed. Theirs can still be popped when undefended, piss off and quiting. See 1.
3. If a cap ship can not destroy other ships because it can't hit them them why need maned turrets, as been suggested for a reason to have them? So they are just a storage place for ship, equipment and ore? Again Cap Ship = POS only it can move around.
4. Sure you can. 24/7 game with 1000's of players, don't hold your breath.
5. With AI economy this is alot less needed. And there are much better ways to boast economy then to introduce a uber, power gamer only, ship into the game.

The very nature of a cap ship needing to be limited in number is the very reason not to have it in game. See if one player gets it then everyone should be able to get it. And as years go by lots of people will have them. If they cost so much that no one can replace them if they get destroyed then they will never be used, why have 'em? In EVE they had some special ships given to some Ammar players for some role playing fight they had. They where so rare and where the focus of any battle and not replaceable they never saw the light of day. Which made them worthless. I would rather see the Devs spend their resources on other things. I fear cap ship are just like POS's, look good on paper but when implemented they will completely screw the game up. The only way I see a cap ship in this game is if it is AI or GM manned and not player maned. If you want cap ship with strategic game play EVE may be your game.

[Nanaki]

Then how is this better than making POS destorable when the owner is logged off? Wouldn't the same TRI "Sorry to inform you....." message just piss off and cause players to quite because their uber expensive cap ship got toasted while they where not around to defend it?

1: Capital ships can still defend themselves while logged off.
2: You can hyperspace your capital ship to the middle of nowhere.

3. If a cap ship can not destroy other ships because it can't hit them them why need maned turrets, as been suggested for a reason to have them? So they are just a storage place for ship, equipment and ore? Again Cap Ship = POS only it can move around.

Because Fighters wont be able to hurt capital ships either.

5. With AI economy this is alot less needed. And there are much better ways to boast economy then to introduce a uber, power gamer only, ship into the game.

No matter how anyone puts it, an AI Economy was put into the game so the PvPers didnt have to put up with the inconviniance of having to run the economy after all the non-PvPers all quit.

If you want cap ship with strategic game play EVE may be your game.

Eve-Online? To be honest, its not worth the 15$. Sure, it has capital ships, but I dont like completely automated ships, completely automated gameplay, etc. etc. etc. Its the only game I know of that you can play while AFK, because it requires so little input.

[leadtail]

Originally Posted by Nanaki

1: Capital ships can still defend themselves while logged off.
2: You can hyperspace your capital ship to the middle of nowhere.

1. How are they defended while offline? AI? Don't think so, if AI is ever a win button kiss that game by. Image it cap ship in the middle of a big furball, player logs, intensional or not, AI takes over pop goes all the enemies, can hear the whining already. Defended by other players? Would you rely on the player base to protect your cap ship 24/7? No way I would waste my game time protecting a cap ship of someone I didn't know.
2. Can you say EVE. lame there, even lamer here.

Because Fighters wont be able to hurt capital ships either.

Ah the I win button, uber ship that can't be hurt, no thanks.

No matter how anyone puts it, an AI Economy was put into the game so the PvPers didnt have to put up with the inconviniance of having to run the economy after all the non-PvPers all quit.

And non-PvPers quite because POS's trashed the economy right. Cap ship that can manufacture, store, equip other ships, sounds like a POS to me. So a squad gets a cap ship they hyperspace out to nowhere, with a rectol have the cords. bring in ore make equip store equip, ect.. Now why do they need haulers for?

Eve-Online? To be honest, its not worth the 15$. Sure, it has capital ships, but I dont like completely automated ships, completely automated gameplay, etc. etc. etc. Its the only game I know of that you can play while AFK, because it requires so little input.

But everything you want cap ships to do sounds just like EVE to me. The only way I see cap ships working is AI or GM controlled not player. Limited uber ship in the hands of a few players is bad game design, period.

[alphabet]

There should be a humongous ship yard deep within the faction, that when the cap ships are docked they are basically 100% protected by AI NPC patrol drones and laser/AAA turrents. Cap ships should not be vulnerable while in the yard. As soon as they leave that sector however, the game is on.

Wouldnt it be cool to fly past the yards and see all those cap ships parked, waiting for action?! Think of something like Starship Troopers where all the cap ships were parked around the moon. That was flipping sweet.

Besides, people have been asking about end-game content. If the haulers and miners get their super duper sized ships to do their jobs, why cant the military have their cap ships. Lock it for opti's and above and make it the equivilant of getting that flippin high-end mount thingy in WoW; meaning you have to work your ass off to get one.

[EDIT] If i was a noob coming into the game and saw that I had to possiblity to get something like that when I became an opti, I would be more excited than ever.

[Vinegar Goose]

Originally Posted by alphabet

There should be a humongous ship yard deep within the faction

I think capital ships should be faction assets. Their numbers limited by treaty. Lets said 20 frigates, 10 destroyers , 4 cruisers, and 4 carriers. The ship yard and ships are build through faction missions. Factions would only use them when war breaks outs. Other times they stay in the ship yard.

Players with high enough rank and standing would be offered ships commands. Lose a ship under your command lowers your standing so commands rotate. Commanders can pick their gunners.

Wars would be fought over territory. Faction high command (GMs) order up the missions. At a set time the fleets jumps out of the ship yard into the mission area. The two fleets fight. The winner gets the territory. The loser retreats and jumps back to the ship yard.

If one side loses too much, TRI and the neutral faction forces a peace treaty to stop the fighting. The winning faction will face the third faction in the next war. The loser rebuilds its fleet.

TRI would have a fleet used for PvE Conflux fighting.

This design keeps cap ships out of the space lanes until they are balanced. In the future they could be added as squadron/player ownable.

[alphabet]

Interesting suggestions! I would hope I was never the captain that lost a cap ship.. you would never live that down.. not in this community! lol

[Nanaki]

Ah the I win button, uber ship that can't be hurt, no thanks.

Uhh... no. I win button means total domination. This is a case where the capital ship cannot hurt the fighter (Unless the fighter gets too close), and the fighter cannot hurt the capital ship. Capital ships are not meant to be ganking machines, and I think its rather silly that you think so.

And non-PvPers quite because POS's trashed the economy right. Cap ship that can manufacture, store, equip other ships, sounds like a POS to me. So a squad gets a cap ship they hyperspace out to nowhere, with a rectol have the cords. bring in ore make equip store equip, ect.. Now why do they need haulers for?

Capital ships wont be able to manufacture components, just higher level commods. Haulers will be necessary to haul commods from the Capital ship to the faction stations, and equipment back.

TRI would have a fleet used for PvE Conflux fighting.

TRI as an organization that doesnt have a real military of their own. They rely on the three major factions for their military needs.

I think capital ships should be faction assets. Their numbers limited by treaty. Lets said 20 frigates, 10 destroyers , 4 cruisers, and 4 carriers. The ship yard and ships are build through faction missions. Factions would only use them when war breaks outs. Other times they stay in the ship yard.

I can see factions building their own capital ships, and perhaps being a military option. This could be used to keep private-owned capital ships in check.

Wars would be fought over territory. Faction high command (GMs) order up the missions.

Only thing I dont like is that it relys too much on GMs pushing a button. I always felt that this was one of jumpgate's biggest weaknesses, you needed a GM to do -everything-. Everythings fine and dandy, of course, until theres a lack of GMs, than the game dies a very quick death.

1. How are they defended while offline? AI? Don't think so, if AI is ever a win button kiss that game by. Image it cap ship in the middle of a big furball, player logs, intensional or not, AI takes over pop goes all the enemies, can hear the whining already. Defended by other players? Would you rely on the player base to protect your cap ship 24/7? No way I would waste my game time protecting a cap ship of someone I didn't know.
2. Can you say EVE. lame there, even lamer here.

1: Turrets are AI-controlled by default anyway. This doesnt make things any different. In addition, you assume that the AI will be 'unstoppable'...

By the way, you like saying the word 'Win Button', dont you?

There should be a humongous ship yard deep within the faction, that when the cap ships are docked they are basically 100% protected by AI NPC patrol drones and laser/AAA turrents. Cap ships should not be vulnerable while in the yard. As soon as they leave that sector however, the game is on.

Thats a good suggestion, actually. A Capital ship 'Home port' in the Core sectors of each faction.

But everything you want cap ships to do sounds just like EVE to me. The only way I see cap ships working is AI or GM controlled not player. Limited uber ship in the hands of a few players is bad game design, period.

Everything sounds like Eve to you. Every suggestion about Capital ships sounds like the attempt by Miners/Cargo Haulers to get an uber Iwin ship to murder all the 'Awesome PvPers'... Your starting to sound like a broken record.

[Injustice]

Originally Posted by GrimLeo

Some Comments on Capital Ships
- Should only have two player crews. A pilot/commander and a gunner. All turrets point in the direction of the gunners cross hairs. More then two players would make the ship difficult to crew. Two man tanks worked well in Planetside. The 3 man TR tank didn't. One player would have trouble jumping from pilot to gunner (should still be an option).

- Main guns should have trouble tracking a fighter and have slow rate of fire and slow shot speed. A flack option would allow the shell to burst at a range selected by the gunner (use for the throttle). Fighters can maneuver to avoid the shot. The Cap ship would be able to disrupt an attack but would have a hard time destroying a careful fighter pilot.

- If a fighter gets too close the gunner can switch to secondary guns. These are Thorn and Barrack class weapons on small turrets.

- Cap ships don't have to be huge. A Frigate could be the same size as the existing Freighters.

- Fighting Cap ships in fighters and bombers would require different skills and tactics then Jumpgate Classic gank fleet fights. There should be room for both styles of play.

This is exactly what I mean when I use the word "gamebreaking".

[Lordopic]

Im sorry haven’t read the whole thread ( ill try later ) but if we are going to have capital ships then Jumpgate space will have to grow some what bigger, or leave capital to Unreg or the edges of space not allowing them into the core regions.