[Nanaki]

I read through the forum a bit, and I havent seen anything on this subject. I have written a long and complicated post on this, but I decided to 'test the waters' first before posting it. What is the general consensus on Capital ships in Jumpgate? I tried out Jumpgate for awile, than decided that the game wasnt for me. Im not that great at piloting fighters, and I actually strongly dislike it, although I love piloting capital ships, especially Carriers.

[Raz]

The main problem is balance.

One person piloting a cap > one person in a fighter. If you try to make them =, caps look weak and your game looks stupid.

I think caps in Jumpgate should be limited to support duties. That doesn't mean noncombat, but I do feel like the main weapon in the Jumpgate universe should be fighter pilots. Supporting them should be the main focus, and if done right, could be awesome.

[alphabet]

So far its been hinted that large ships will have FTL travel, meaning they wont have to use the jumpgates to travel from sector to sector.

Now imagine a carrier class cap ship, that holds say 30 fighters. That would indeed be the type of gameplay I would be interested in.

It would also give a purpose to those things currently in game called bombers... think about it.

Now, if they implemented polycrewing where one fellas controls the cap ship and other folks control laser turrents.. same token, one guy flys the bomber and another mans the tailgun. Then you have some totally awesome gameplay on your hands.

[Raz]

Now, if they implemented polycrewing where one fellas controls the cap ship and other folks control laser turrents.. same token, one guy flys the bomber and another mans the tailgun. Then you have some totally awesome gameplay on your hands.

I have to disagree. Such gameplay is almost always boring. (Turret manning, that is)

Jumpgate is about flight. I don't feel like cap ships should be able to hold off enemy fighters without a fighter escort.

1-2, sure maybe. But any more and you're risking diminishing the importance of fighters in a game where flight is the fun part, not hulking slow ships.

[vorlon31]

Cap ships are a great idea but I would like to see factional cap ships that come available during certain game events.

MT mission.. Our intelligence has indicated that Quantar is preparing a major offensive to claim sector xyz. They will be deploying their carrier class vessel 'holy-moly' with at least 30 fighter supports. To counter them, Solrain will be deploying its own carrier 'bouncing cheque'. Your {group} mission is to rendezvous with the bouncing cheque in wanderers pond and dock, from there the carrier will jump to sector xyz and you are then required to launch and destroy the holy-moly. Good luck and claim sector xyz with your victory over the holy-moly in the name of Solrain.

Then the (AI) carriers park x far apart and slog it out while the fighters of both try to destroy/defend their own carriers.

[alphabet]

Originally Posted by Raz

I have to disagree. Such gameplay is almost always boring. (Turret manning, that is)

Jumpgate is about flight. I don't feel like cap ships should be able to hold off enemy fighters without a fighter escort.

1-2, sure maybe. But any more and you're risking diminishing the importance of fighters in a game where flight is the fun part, not hulking slow ships.

Thats not the point I was trying to make at all Raz.

Cap ships fight other cap ships. Fighters protect the cap ships from bombers and also escort their own bombers for fighter protection.

I really cant believe someone would actually say teamwork is bad for a game. I guess youve never played wwiiol or planetside where polycrewing is not only fun and promotes teamwork, but also enhances the fighting characteristics of the vehicle that is multcrewed.

Bah! I need a cup of coffee. Its too early here and I just cant believe someone would say that..

[Raz]

I guess youve never played wwiiol or planetside

Played PS quite a bit actually, it was 99% Zerg 1% strategy, and I know you know that as well as I do.

The idea of AI Caps is intriguing. Player caps would have to be done extremely carefully, to not rob the fighters of their center stage.

[alphabet]

So in Planetside you never sat in the tailgunner of a bomber or in a turret on a Galaxy, a gunner on a Marauder and thought it was totally wicked awesome to have your buddy driving and you gunning for him or vise versa?

Sony has screwed the pooch on almost every game the created, but multicrewing wasnt one of them.

BTW, in the old days Jumpgate warfare was a zerg fest too. 60+ gank fleet at wake anyone?

[Raz]

Yes, but when the fleet died it reformed, and it was generally all on voice chat.

That is not a zerg.

So in Planetside you never sat in the tailgunner of a bomber or in a turret on a Galaxy, a gunner on a Marauder and thought it was totally wicked awesome to have your buddy driving and you gunning for him or vise versa?

Sure did, but PS wasn't an RPG where there is a good chance you may not get instant combat. PS was a game where the whole game was about blowing **** up.

You're only thinking about the part where you get to shoot. It's not nearly as fun to sit in a turret while the cap flies around for 2 hours looking for that sol fleet that you never caught up to, while if you did it in a fighter, at least you got to fly something.

See what I mean?

I think that because of reasons like this, the focus should be on carriers.

Sitting in a turret is boring, but how about sitting INSIDE the carrier waiting for the word from the Captain, and when he finds that sol fleet, warning klaxons go off, and you LAUNCH from it in your fighter?

Same thing as 'turrets' except you'll be defending the cap in a fighter instead of a turret.

I like that much better.

(Not to say there shouldn't be turrets at ALL. You should be able to man turrets from inside the carrier as well.)

[alphabet]

Wow!!

We totally disagree on almost everything...





are you my wife?!?!

[Injustice]

Seems to me that just sitting inside a carrier waiting to launch is just as boring as manning a turret. At least in a turret you'd get to see the vast emptiness of space float by.

Seriously though, turrets where mucho fun in games like Allegiance where there was virtually guaranteed player targets to shoot at and your station had hemispherical freedom of movement. Having a turret option in Jumpgate Evolution would be just as fun under the right circumstances.

Having said that, I don't like the idea of capital ships taking over in PvP. IMO dominating by ship class is akin to taking the Jumpgate out of Jumpgate, so to speak. The keys to victory and defeat should still rest on the skills of the individual pilots.

[Nanaki]

Well, here goes my take on capital ships.

The primary reason that the lack of capital ships is flawed is that in Jumpgate, theres a vacuum of capability within the ranks of TRI, Solarin, Octavius, and Quantar. This vacuum was painfully obvious with the introduction of Jumpgate infestations, with the need to introduce a powerful 'nuke' missile just to destroy it. TRI's members lack the capability to stage any kind of meaningful assault on either eachother, or the Conflux.

The exclusive use of fighters as tools for power projection, for the reasons above, is flawed. So that asks the question, why havent TRI, or any of the three factions, put any kind of effort into capital ships? Here are the technological limitations, since everything has to tie into the storyline.

1: Use of the Jumpgate system - Capital ships, by their nature, would probably be too large to use the Jumpgate system. This can be solved by either giving the Capital ship the ability to 'tap' into a Jumpgate at a distance, and than jump to the other side. Much like the current system used for fighters, except that the radius is much bigger for capital ships to compensate for their large size. The other solution, of course, is to give capital ships their own jumpdrive.
2: Construction - Unlike most fighter craft, just building the necessary manufacturing facility for these behemoths is no easy task. It will make the previous efforts to construct ship-building facilities look like a cakewalk.
3: Components - Early capital ships will likely use arrays of fighter and freighter components. In the end, your probably going to be spending enough cash for a Carrier to put an 8-slot POS to shame. Admittingly, that carrier would be a lot more useful.

Early implimentation of Capital ships.

Phase 1: Development of the Jump Drive
Weither we go with tapping into existing Jumpgates, or creating temporary wormholes to other systems, the development of this device must go with it. More than likely, it will involve a lot of Pre-collapse reverse engineering, since its likely they had capital ships too. This will likely be a TRI effort, and the resulting device will probably not be usable on fighters, and end up being a really expensive commodity.

Phase 2: Construction of the Initial Manufacturing Facility
Here is where things deviate. Now that we have a basic jumpdrive, now you need a ship capible of using it. Now, either all three factions will construct their own factories, or they will enlist TRI to construct the capital ship factory and than place their own orders from it. Usually, its the former happening, as I do not remember TRI manufacturing any particular design for all three factions. Its a definate possibility that the first capital ship design may fall under TRI, primarily because capital ships are an unproven, and extremely expensive and risky prospect. The first capital ship will likely be a corvette or frigate, and, if built under TRI, will probably see the most action against the Conflux.

Phase 3: Construction of the Capital Ship
Assuming that all three factions elected to split the costs between eachother, and build one manufacturing facility instead of three faction-specific, than the last part involves actually manufacturing the capital ship. Unlike everything else involving capital ships to this point, there is actually a direct reward of doing this. Your very own capital ship. Capital ships will likely require an ungodly amount of Electronics, CPUs, Construction Materials, Carbon, Fiber optics, Armor, practically every commodity out there. In addition, it requires one jumpdrive, and components for your new-found capital ship.

The Nature of Capital Ships

Early capital ships will likely use massed arrays of fighter and freighter-based gear. A frigate, for example, could have 3 Vectors, 2 TRIP-1s, 4 Wardens (With their stats stacking). ECM and Radar would likely remain single-package (as stacking them would yield no benefit), although the early capital ships would probably use the biggest ones available. They would be going at about a speed of 150-200. Fast for a capital ship, slow for anything else. These ships will likely be 100% Turreted, with each turret possessing it's own powerplant, capacitor, and weapon bank (2 or 4 weapons, usually). Missiles will likely have their own turreted form, but lack both a capacitor and powerplant and will likely be able to reload directly from the Frigate's cargo bay. The ship itself will possess no weapons early on, but later capital ships may use huge, specially-designed spinal weapons. Capital ships will have numerous MODx slots. Im a little mixed on weither to give them afterburners or not, although the primary purpose of afterburners on a capital ship is to transit to the battlefield in a semi-quick fashion.

Frigates will likely be a space-superiority platform, mainly designed to deal with Conflux and enemy fighters, Frigates, and Carriers. It may also likely be escorts for Carriers. They may also be crucial for destroying carriers and stations, as their missile banks can be equipped with thermonuclear missiles.

Carriers will probably be unusually early for a capital ship so large, but the strategic advantages of a Carrier are clear. Imagine a Station with engines, guns, armor, and shields strapped to it. Now you have a Carrier. Unlike the Frigate, it will likely go much slower (About 50 v), and despite being well-armed, armored, and shielded, will be best escorted. Like POSes, they will be upgradable with various internal upgrades to gradually unlock the station capabilities of the Carrier. The carrier will have more in common with a faction-made station, however, than a POS, and may be able to manufacture components every production cycle, given the resources are provided.

The Carrier could be used for a wide variety of tasks in both peace and wartime. In Wartime, especially against the Conflux, the capability to have mobile bases capible of going anywhere at will is crucial. This includes the possibility of Carriers being the basis of a major TRI incursion into Conflux space. Carriers could also be purchased by civilians and have a non-combat use as well, providing a remote mobile platform for refining raw materials in addition to being a mobile base for artifact-hunters.

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