[netburnr]

Anyone remember when there were no flashfires....Damn that sucked.

I actually hate the idea of players being able to completely stop the production of anything....

[SlimPickns]

Originally Posted by Magnus

And again, if you extend your vision beyond 30 online pilots peak time, you will understand that it's nonsense. Unless you have a huge fleet of haulers trying to accomplish that for a few days in a row.
Anyway, what's with the stock-stealing gameplay, which you tend to call PvP and try to stick into every single discussion? I suggest you drop it or just go easier on it. A lot easier.

Dear Magnus, i used to haul stocks HG, gear, commods that made guns, that kinda thing. I only ran civ when i was making somthing. The term stock stealing, does not aply when a peep is doing it HG. It means war. If i could take things now, HG, i would. Your, lucky i cant. And i would not put the stuff in a pos, it would be in my factions stations. So, you could bring your tug and take it back,,
I would also not take stuff in off hrs, i would fly when you fly. So whats not to like. dude.

Its not a big deal,, eco warfare. I dont know whats so scary about it. the passions peeps have about the so called one player killing the eco, thats impossable. Its been tried and its failed.

If there were commods that only mlt could pick up as cargo missions. And if mlt could dock at faction stations, to get the cargo. It would seperate the men from the boys. boys.


I had that once,
In prison.

[dailatron]

Originally Posted by SlimPickns

First, thanks for all the insults.. i would expect nothing less from the EU..

EU, what part of the EU is Austin at ?. Insults are not EU exclusive you know.

[Magnus]

Originally Posted by SlimPickns

Dear Magnus, i used to haul stocks HG, gear, commods that made guns, that kinda thing. I only ran civ when i was making somthing. The term stock stealing, does not aply when a peep is doing it HG. It means war. If i could take things now, HG, i would. Your, lucky i cant. And i would not put the stuff in a pos, it would be in my factions stations. So, you could bring your tug and take it back,,
I would also not take stuff in off hrs, i would fly when you fly. So whats not to like. dude.

Its not a big deal,, eco warfare. I dont know whats so scary about it. the passions peeps have about the so called one player killing the eco, thats impossable. Its been tried and its failed.

If there were commods that only mlt could pick up as cargo missions. And if mlt could dock at faction stations, to get the cargo. It would seperate the men from the boys. boys.

Again you prefer to respond to some parts of my post leaving out other parts, which are rather important. Like the "more then 30 ppl" bit. I imagine 1000+ players online would need a HUGE quantity of gear. Now tell me how you see it affected by your eco warfare? A hauler with 100K cargo hold?
It should never be achievable at least for 1 reason: by doing this you basically griefing other ppl gameplay, it's the same as griefers killing miners and forcing them to fight. Most ppl would not want to play "steal stock from eacheother" game but they will be forced to cause they don't have a gear to fight, don't they? You decide to steal missiles, someone else will decide the same on engines, one more on guns. You are acting like you are alone there. I'm not talking about killing eco, you're right that's impossible, but i'm talking about you griefing my gameplay.
I'd say strategically important part of the station stocks i.e. main gear for combat ships + FFs and Missiles should not be even visible to other faction pilots when they dock at OP.
If you use common logic, you will understand what i'm saying. Why in a world would it be allowed for a foreign faction MT to dock at my station and steal stuff?
It's still stealing cause regardless of your tags we can't possibly sit on stocks in station sector all the time and guard them.

[SlimPickns]

Your right, Magnus, it would be griefing, someones game style. No one, becides bonified pvpers should be able to grief anyone. Haulers and Miners should always be defenceless and at the mercy of pvpers. I am sorry.

I have always taken anything you say about pvp, as gospel. You know pvp. Please grant me the same curtisy, on the eco. This thread has degraded, mostly because of me, for that i apoligize.

But, and this will be my last post on the subject. Just say, that Outpost makes explosives, and explosives makes missles. If, the only way for opposing factions to get the explosives was to don mlt tags and get the explosives as a milt cargo mission. If the explosives payed 30k unit profit. That would bring mlt haulers to outpost. We have alot of talk about haulers being enticed to unreg, or other places with carrots. Hauling, anything, that a station produces is never stealing.

When the octs were doing their injustice FM, i tried a RP with liet. I would take the aluminum, to stop the FM, a legitiment RP. But we stoped it, when it turned out to be realy lame with me flying civ. The aluminum was put in quant depot. I flew when liet flew, never took any aluminum during off hrs.. but there were two octs that came and got the aluminum back during off hrs. Which was ok with me, at least i knew that kind of RP would work, it just needed me mlt or HG. to make it fun.

Does it mater what time of day a peep hauls HG or milt? The game goes 24/7, there are pvpers on most of the time. If the cargo is somthing thats produced at the target station, its legit cargo. And pvpers have more targets, legit, targets.

You know, i would pay peeps to scan cargo. In the current enviroment, restrict combat commods going to and from quant space, but i dont know if any of yous would play, or just blow the whole thing up. Your squad is powerfull enough to dictate game play. If you want it restricted to nightly jousts its ok with me.

And i will change my sign off, it seems to bother some.


Then said I
Here am I
Send Me.

[Magnus]

Originally Posted by SlimPickns

Your right, Magnus, it would be griefing, someones game style. No one, becides bonified pvpers should be able to grief anyone. Haulers and Miners should always be defenceless and at the mercy of pvpers. I am sorry.

If you read my post again, you will see that comparing said stock stealing to griefing miners by PvPers meant to show that i find them equally bad things. There is such a thing as interaction between different playstyles and i'm all up for it, there is no jumpgate without it. Bu i don't want to be forced to run around looking for my stolen equipment, neither i want to be forced to go minning cause otherwise i cannot make enough money to continue my PvP activities.

Originally Posted by SlimPickns

I have always taken anything you say about pvp, as gospel. You know pvp. Please grant me the same curtisy, on the eco.

What we are talking about now, is not the eco is warfare. I don't care if you steal a load of commods as long as it doesn't affect production of one or several items for the ENTIRE faction and stop me from being able to play my game.

Originally Posted by SlimPickns

But, and this will be my last post on the subject. Just say, that Outpost makes explosives, and explosives makes missles. If, the only way for opposing factions to get the explosives was to don mlt tags and get the explosives as a milt cargo mission. If the explosives payed 30k unit profit. That would bring mlt haulers to outpost. We have alot of talk about haulers being enticed to unreg, or other places with carrots. Hauling, anything, that a station produces is never stealing.

Well, this should change then. Either OP should be producing enough, or they should be produced in other factions space as well. Current eco works with 30 ppl online but it will not work with 1000+. 1 hauler shuold never be able to affect gameplay of 300 other players. If you can get 50 other haulers to go with you and do the same - fair enough. Great job if you can pull that off and don't get shot down. On the other hand... if you all will be shot down with all the explosives in cargo... it's not really a good thing, cconsidering it could be some other commod that will stop engine or shield production and we will not be able to fly at all.

Originally Posted by SlimPickns

When the octs were doing their injustice FM, i tried a RP with liet. I would take the aluminum, to stop the FM, a legitiment RP. But we stoped it, when it turned out to be realy lame with me flying civ. The aluminum was put in quant depot. I flew when liet flew, never took any aluminum during off hrs.. but there were two octs that came and got the aluminum back during off hrs. Which was ok with me, at least i knew that kind of RP would work, it just needed me mlt or HG. to make it fun.

It's very nice of you to do it when enemies are online and in MT, but i know some ppl who would do it(and doing it now in Jumpgate Classic on regular basis) in off hours and in civ tags. How would you force ppl to play it nice? Remember the Duelist Drama some time ago? Just one guy messed up everything, but it was more of a problem for noobs, small squads and lone pilots since big squads usually have large stocks of their own and were not affected.

Originally Posted by SlimPickns

You know, i would pay peeps to scan cargo. In the current enviroment, restrict combat commods going to and from quant space, but i dont know if any of yous would play, or just blow the whole thing up. Your squad is powerfull enough to dictate game play. If you want it restricted to nightly jousts its ok with me.

You know that patrolling and scanning could be fun once a month during some good RP, but usually it's plain boring. I don't have 20 hours a day to play the game, only 2-3 if i'm lucky and i don't want to spend them looking for stolen cargo nor sitting on stocks and OP so the will not be stolen and scan all the ships going out.

[dahalb]

Originally Posted by Magnus

What we are talking about now, is not the eco is warfare. I don't care if you steal a load of commods as long as it doesn't affect production of one or several items for the ENTIRE faction and stop me from being able to play my game.

I happen to think that economic warfare should be included. With an ability to "strip" a station comes a need for protection of those stocks. This is something the military should be doing. The difference is in Jumpgate Classic stripping can be done civ and MT shouldn't be able to dock at opposing faction stations. So how do you implement something like that? I really don't know! I have thought through a number of scenarios but they all have gaping holes in them. YOu can't force someone into MT if they legitimately buy the last magnesium off a non-producing station to get production going elsewhere.

The bottom line is, if players are to have an effect on storyline and "the galaxy" then economic warfare is a good way of letting them do it. An embargo of Oct space by the quants and sols or a "re-allocation" of all the iron in the galaxy back to Quant Core would/could bring entire RP chains together.

[SlimPickns]

The current mlt patch is not complete, we were supposto have more. Whether it included any legitament way to conduct eco warfare, i dont know.

I know that combat players feel that no milt should be able to dock in oposing factions stations. I also know that if were going to have any legitment eco warfare that milt haulers will have to be able to dock in oposing factions stations. Or some kind of tag, so both hauler and fighter pilots can shoot at each other without penalities.

The way the cargo missions are generated, enables haulers to take just about anything that sits in a station, whether its made at that station or not. If theres 9 nitrogen in 3pt, it will generate a nitrogen mission to oct core if oct core shows none on the floor. So alot of the so called striping at stations are legitment cargo missions, and not some evil peep, trying to jack the production.

The eco system will be different in Jumpgate Evolution, so i wont cry until i am hit. But i am posting to petition a way for some kind of eco combat.

Before the station stock spawns were changed, to mining only stocks. We still had to go to stations to make commods, and haul them to our own factions stations to make guns, and missles. These are the commods i feel we should haul Mlt, HG, or some way with a tag, so opposing forces know the intentions of the hauler.

If commods like explosives, in oct space, elects, in sol space, and fuel cells, in quant space, could only be hauled by a taged hauler, it would not jack the civ haulers game.

The only way any combat pilot would do without is, if his faction was completly unable to complete the milt cargo missions. And that would not keep that faction from hauling missles made in other factions space, they would just not be able to make there factions, missles. or guns.

It realy does not mater what time of day the hauler runs either. He has to run taged. I know before, peeps checked the pilot rosters, to see when griefers ran their gear, and loged in and shot them. I know that would happen to taged haulers, also. Its not a gimme.

Another thing i would like to see, if its possable, is when factions do FMs that one or more commod, that they have to haul, be added to the combat hauling roster, so peeps that want to interfear in the FM can do so legit, at their own,,, gads i cant spell, parel.. o well.

In order to play, there has to be toys. The synth blockade in oct space, was, a bust for me because, whoever was runing it was lame. They had five peeps ready to pounce on anyone that was willing to pick up two synths, and run. While i did go there just to let the octs know, that there was someone willing to run the blockade, i ran with 50 flails. If the octs would of made 200 synths, and left then on the floor, i would of brought escorts, i would of made it worth their while, i would of brought silicon, and chems, to make more, its not the end, its the begining. Without toys there is no game. And i made the flails, also. And made more the next day. But why run a synth, RP blockade, and pick up the synths, when i dock.. Like ok i wont play.. zeeya.


Across the great devide,
Just grab your hat,
And take that ride.

[Wild_Bill]

If and it's a big "if", each faction was surrounded and seperated by several unregulated sectors (at least two), it would take care of the problem. "Civ" haulers could "strip" foreign stations, but since they would have to travel through unreg space to get home, they would be fair game during the transit.

This does several things.
1) It makes foreign trading/eco war forays more dangerous for the "civ" hauler.
2) It allows hostile, but civ, haulers to dock at foreign stations and transact business there, including stripping equipment/supplies.
3) It gives the pirate RP much greater lattitude and "legitimate" (or at least non-hard-coded-penalties) access to civ haulers and profits.
4) It also gives the option for MT missions that would include patrolling unreg or border areas, then scaning as well as stripping/burgling hostile foreign haulers as an alternate to just shooting them down and losing the commodities/equipment. (remember the old "strip & splash" technique?)

[dahalb]

You are correct WB and that idea has been discussed elsewhere but afaik, no-one at ND has confirmed that the factions will be isolated. I still think that there should be at least 3 or 4 unreg sectors along the shortest route with one along the longest route.

We will see though...