[ELPIRATA]

Guess the hardcore ones, the ones who love the niche that's in place, will use Jumpgate Classic then..... well, at least there's a chance it will be there... and perhaps some of us may use it.

I dont like the thought of instancing at all, it repulses my thought of a massive online game. The moment anyone can separate from the rest... at will... this is a nightmare... for me.

ELP

[Injustice]

ELP, I get the impression you're confused about what the instanced battleground concept is. An instanced battleground is nothing more than an arena. There's nothing keeping you from entering said arena to slaughter the other guy, but you're going to have to do it on even terms. Meaning if the guy you're after has four of his buddies in the instance with him, you can only send five or six of your guys to get him.

In other words, it's a way of levelling the playing field by taking the "gank fleet" out of the equation and putting the outcome of the encounter back into the hands of the pilots. You can speak about "hardcore" all you want, the bottom line is that the real "hardcore" PvPers would rather win a fair fight then tag along in a gank fleet or get hosed by one.

[Radi]

Originally Posted by Scorch

We are thinking about this in a way very similar to WoW's battlegrounds. It would be more like controlled PvP rather than open PvP (not that there is not also open PvP). It's for people who find it more fun to win a Quake match rather than turn space red for the night. Its just a different play style that we feel would, as others have suggested here, open the game to more types of players.

Didn't Battlegrounds in WoW change PvP radicly? From what I read, after battlegrounds were introduced (and PvP ranks), it became a simple grind because of stats. Furthermore, I believe it also eliminated some spectacular raids (to faction's major cities) that were common prior to Battlegrounds. Correct me if I'm wrong. It would shame if we lost those (sometimes nightly) raids to Quant Core, Wake, or Oupost stations.


While, I'm all for allowing different play-styles, this might hurt Jumpgate Evolution more than benefit. It will divide playerbase into non-pvper's and pvp'ers even more.

Just my 2c's.

[Eraser55]

Theres nothing hardcore about fair fights.. hardcore is fighting outnumbered, when your pushed to the edge and every move and shot counts.

Anyway.. I wont like it till I see how it is implemented. and there might be a small chance that I will like it in some form.. but imo it has nothing to do in mmos..

And what is the difference between instanced battlegrounds and Sim space we have now? I could see some kind of tournaments game play with money prizes.. like we have now, but hardcoded...and nothing more..

There is nothing wrong with Gank fleets. It is best valid tactic you can use in pvp combat.

I still cant judge it properly before I see it. But from many many MMOs I played.. they all seem to reduce player interactivity with this type of game play. To me a mmo is not about how many thousands play it. But how many of those thousands of players can I interact with.

[ELPIRATA]

So basically you say that I could see a 2 on 2 situation... hummm, how about this...

Liet and Magnus (2 examples only I could use any 2 OV names too) vs me and Johnny Prime, 2 on 2.... do you think this is fair? In some cases, even a 4 on 1 is not fair, when its clear that the single fighter can kill the other 4 and still laugh about surviving without any armor damage (like the time we did Tazor our captain..... we ganked him and we got pwned).

Equal numbers doesnt indicate 'fair' nor 'balanced'. Those who are skilled pilots will always survive and own the others even if outnumbered (which I've also seen while fighting with OV).

ELP

[Algore]

Instances would be great for stat whoring. I guess some like to do that.
If I look at online numbers and see me being outnumbered I see a challenge. Horribly outnumbered I see a chance for amusement. Other times I either do something non PvP or just don't log on. I don't shy away though and leave my buddies to fight alone, that would just be pain cowardly. The greatest battles are those won while outnumbered.
I wouldn't mind seeing this being implemented in some sort of way if it encourages other peeps to play some more. I'll reserve judgement though.

Regards
Al

[Injustice]

Originally Posted by Radi

Didn't Battlegrounds in WoW change PvP radicly? From what I read, after battlegrounds were introduced (and PvP ranks), it became a simple grind because of stats. Furthermore, I believe it also eliminated some spectacular raids (to faction's major cities) that were common prior to Battlegrounds. Correct me if I'm wrong. It would shame if we lost those (sometimes nightly) raids to Quant Core, Wake, or Oupost stations.


While, I'm all for allowing different play-styles, this might hurt Jumpgate Evolution more than benefit. It will divide playerbase into non-pvper's and pvp'ers even more.

Just my 2c's.

The honor system is what broke world PvP in WoW. Although world PvP still happened all the time, it wasn't on as large a scale because a lot of the would be responders to an attack were either busy playing a battleground instance or getting ready to enter one. The reason for that was because, unlike Jumpgate, player kills in WoW actually counted for something other than a number on some stat page and the best way to get kills was by playing in a battleground.

Originally Posted by ELPIRATA

So basically you say that I could see a 2 on 2 situation... hummm, how about this...

Liet and Magnus (2 examples only I could use any 2 OV names too) vs me and Johnny Prime, 2 on 2.... do you think this is fair? In some cases, even a 4 on 1 is not fair, when its clear that the single fighter can kill the other 4 and still laugh about surviving without any armor damage (like the time we did Tazor our captain..... we ganked him and we got pwned).

Equal numbers doesnt indicate 'fair' nor 'balanced'. Those who are skilled pilots will always survive and own the others even if outnumbered (which I've also seen while fighting with OV).

ELP

I guess that's where you and I differ when it comes to player skill when it comes to PvP. I believe the outcome of a dogfight should come down to which side has the better pilots, not which side has the most. Jumpgate is supposed to be about pilot skill. I mean, why on earth would we spend so much time bitching about ship balance if it wasn't?

But that's beside the point. Factional and squad warfare will still rage in real space regardless of whether Jumpgate Evolution has instanced battlegrounds or not, because you can't force your RP on someone in the sim. Having instanced battlegrounds simply gives PvPers an alternative to logging out if the heat is on and they know their only option in real space is getting squashed by a gank fleet repeatedly.

[Algore]

Originally Posted by Injustice

I guess that's where you and I differ when it comes to player skill when it comes to PvP. I believe the outcome of a dogfight should come down to which side has the better pilots, not which side has the most. Jumpgate is supposed to be about pilot skill. I mean, why on earth would we spend so much time bitching about ship balance if it wasn't?

Is it just me or is that not exactly the point Elp was getting at? As in some times in order to be fair the opposing side needs extra numbers due to the pilot skill of their adversaries.

Regards
Al

[ELPIRATA]

Meaning if the guy you're after has four of his buddies in the instance with him, you can only send five or six of your guys to get him.

This is where you confuse me then, becuase the way I understand this.. its even numbers vs even numbers. Basically what Im saying is taht even numbers arent the same as even odds or fair fight even... as it depends on their skills and as such, its not even anyways. Basically, you are not disagreeing with me... you are agreeing with me.

Skills and numbers arent the same. Skills is what defines a win. Skills over numbers many times.. skills wins.

ELP

[Injustice]

Originally Posted by Algore

Is it just me or is that not exactly the point Elp was getting at? As in some times in order to be fair the opposing side needs extra numbers due to the pilot skill of their adversaries.

Regards
Al

ELP's point was that he needed more than just himself and Johnny Prime to stand a chance against Liet and Magnus. My point is that ELP and I don't agree on the definition of a fair fight. If I go up against a pilot that's better than me and lose, then so be it. I realize that there are certain people that play Jumpgate that have an acute inferiority complex and their ego can't take that kind of abuse, in which case they should stay out of the battlegrounds and stick to tagging along with real space gank fleets. To reiterate what Scorch said, "to each his own".

[Custardx]

The thing with using WoW as an example is that the instances aren't for every day things such as mining (as someone said). Instances are specifically for 5 man teams at the releveant level to mash their way through (or die horribly trying) to get nice equipment and what not.

You can't possibly thinking introducing instances for simple little things to Jumpgate Evolution would make it good do you? I think people should be forced to interact with others, if you were a space pilot in Jumpgate (it is a RPG after all) and you were attacked by a pirate, what you gunna do, say, "sorry mate, this is my sector of the sector, can't come here"? Not going to happen.

Instances could be fun for PvE content, such as a hard slog in flux space with the end 'boss' being a conflux mothership or something, but things like mining, flying and eveyrthing else what is everyday nono, may as well place freelancer if you don't want bother imo.

Cx