[Hurricane]

I’ve been thinking up a way that production in Jumpgate Evolution could be changed that would allow the player driven economy to function a bit better. What if when you were making say Instigator PP, you could drop the commodities you need into a dedicated production bin where the commodes would be dedicated to just Instigator PP’s? Once dropped into a dedicate production bin, the commodities then could not be removed, and production of Instigators would remain constant until the commodities ran out.

As it stands now, if I were to drop 400 units of electronics at Amananth to make these power plants, the electronics would be consumed by the production of every piece of equipment that uses electronics. So my 400 units might end up being only 100 used to make what I want. Of course if I strip Amananth of other commodes I can stop other items from producing, only to possibly later bring back the stripped commodities to make something else.

Add to the fact that I can’t just drop 400 units and leave without the possibility that someone will come in right behind me, grab a cargo mission for electronics and move them off to some other station, at which time the station may use the electronics to something no one wants to ever use.

I’m thinking that if Jumpgate Evolution could give us more control over the use of the commodities that we mine for, it would be a good thing. It has always bothered me that the commodities can be used up for production of things like Liar Lasers, which hardly every get used by the general crowd of pilots.

[Wild_Bill]

I agree Hurricane. Controlled production is something the game has needed for a long time. I imagine a factory function on the station similar to the CP mode, but with a production ratio of commods to output like the current station ratio, or even better. You dock, buy necessary materials (or bring them with you), hit the "produce" option on the station menu. Choose what you want to produce. The items are taken from your cargo and whatever you chose to produce takes it's place (subject to needed items and cargo space). No dumping commods onto the station floor. No babysitting your production to keep someone else from grabbing it as the production cycles through making x per cycle and taking up to several hours to complete.

No 1 or 2 or even 6 per cycle nonsense. If you've got the materials for 20, you get 20 in one cycle. If you've got enough for 500, then you get 500 in the same cycle. Having to wait for hours is nonsense. Having your production go directly to the floor is crazy. Why should the commods you brought to produce x, be split up producing a,b,c,d? I know not everyone likes this idea from when I proposed something similar before this, but I am yet to be convinced our current situation is better. Having to babysit either your commods or your production is just "not fun" and serves no RP purpose I can understand.

[sarah-mari]

This idea seems quite good.

[dahalb]

The idea has merit. Are you suggesting every pilot has the ability to do this on any station? Also, would there be a standard market as well that would just hold stocks of whatever and production would run similarly to what was implemented in Jumpgate Classic off this other market?

[dailatron]

Originally Posted by dahalb

The idea has merit. Are you suggesting every pilot has the ability to do this on any station? Also, would there be a standard market as well that would just hold stocks of whatever and production would run similarly to what was implemented in Jumpgate Classic off this other market?

Production should not be station based as it is now, it needs seperate production houses. Stations should be trading posts only. The system we have now is wasteful and what is suggested above doesnt make practical sense to me.

[dahalb]

They weren't suggestions but rather questions. I worked the economy for a while. Even developed some tools to aid in the endeavour. It was broken, I don't think anyone would disagree with that sentiment. What was suggested was a dedicated production bin. This makes sense to me. It could be RP'd that actual factories are present in the stations that have their own individual markets where they sell the product and buy the required commods. The "Station Market" could be the free market we are all used to. It wouldn't be rocket science to suggest that it would be possible for these "factories" to purchase commods from the "station market" to supplement their activities if/when required. The question regarding every pilot at every station had more to do with factionalism. Can an Oct come to Sol Core and move all the commods into production of crap component A if he wants? I think that's a valid question. It means there are more ways than 1 to wage economic war. You don't really need to strip stations, just move commods into specific production lines.

Anyway, as I said IMO, the original idea has merit. It just needs expansion and explanation.

[dailatron]

Originally Posted by dahalb

They weren't suggestions but rather questions.

I only quoted your questions as the reasons I think it isnt practical to have in house production.

My concept is we have a chemicals factory that only excepts/buys those commods that make chemicals and only sells chemicals. Then you take your chemicals to the explosives factory and that factory only buys commods that make explosives and so on until you get your end product.

No waste, no production of commod/equipment that no on uses and if someone wants to disrupt the production of things at least they will have to work for it. Rather than just dump loads on needed commods in the bin that makes Defiers.

[Ikeprof]

Nice idea.

[Jump]

I just realized something. My aging brain has trouble realizing that dahalb is not dailatron. I'm like, why is he talking to himself.


You guys need AVATARS!!

[dailatron]

Originally Posted by Jump

I just realized something. My aging brain has trouble realizing that dahalb is not dailatron. I'm like, why is he talking to himself.


You guys need AVATARS!!

LOL actualy when I reread dahalb and then mine I thought damn he just said that. Anyway mine involves factory buildings not in house. Which I left out and is vital for my concept to work.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Wild_Bill

I know not everyone likes this idea from when I proposed something similar before this, but I am yet to be convinced our current situation is better.

Sorry WB, I probibly wasn't active when you posted this kind of idea before.

But to continue on..... I am not looking for insta production. I think there should be lots of FM to build CP's and Science Factories (like the old Duelist one that was in Great Pillars) if we want to turn out 250 units of any equipment instantly. But I also think that if I take all the commods to a factory like that I should be making money, not loosing money. Concept being that I'm taking the work off the stations hands and producing the equipment myself, so the stations should pay me more for my work when I drop off the equipment, not cost me money to help those slow producing station out. But this is a little off topic and should be in it's own thread maybe.

Originally Posted by dahalb

The idea has merit. Are you suggesting every pilot has the ability to do this on any station? Also, would there be a standard market as well that would just hold stocks of whatever and production would run similarly to what was implemented in Jumpgate Classic off this other market?

Yes, every pilot would have the ability to do this at any station they could dock at that produced any type of equipment, or commodities. The standard market would still exist, and the commodities on the standard market would be used for production as we know it. Although.... if a certain item had the needed commodities in the production bin, then it would produce using those commodities first, before looking to the market.

I would also suggest that production bins have a cap of how many commodities can be put toward the production of a certian item. For example: Injustice lasers need Xenon, Laser Comp's and Optics, so the production bin could hold a max of 750 units, 250 each commodity needed to product the IJ's. The production would then spit out how ever many per cycle same as our current system, but the commodities deliveried, or bought and placed in the production bin would then be dedicated to IJ production, and not be sucked up by other items that we really don't want to produce.

Each station now has a reserve inventory, so the first x amount of commodities gets sucked up really quick, to the point where it disapears imediately. If this reserve inventory was broken off into multiple bins for each item that gets produced at the station it would basically do what I'm suggesting.

Not sure if something like this will ever get implimented, but anything that would help control the consumption of our limited supply of raw commodities would go a long way in helping equipment stocks. To offen it feels completely fruitless to spend hours mining for silicon only to see 3/4th of my work go into items that most poeple will never use. This would curse half of the babysitting problem as now you wouldn't have to sit to slowly feed the stations the commodities to produce X. I haven't concluded the best way to solve the problem of waiting for second tier commodities to produce and buying them up while waiting for the next cycle...... yet.

[Philosfr]

Having separate stations for each commod would quickly fill up a sector. If you spread them between separate sectors, you're traveling an awfully lot with a near empty hold to get the various small quantities needed of everything to produce a large amount.

That's less of the concern that I would have. More of the concern would be the fact that there would never be "incidental construction". There's a lot of folks that don't care about the production side. They are consumers. They want to buy guns and missiles, launch and get shot down, and repeat.

With the current production model, when I haul a load up to Wake to make Cutlass missiles, other things are going to get made that I didn't intend. Now that is a bit of a pain, but all those consumers will appreciate having the odds and ends items in small quantities that show up. If I went to a Cutlass producing factory that only produced Cutlass missiles, those incidentals would no longer exist.

Also remember, the amount of inadvertent production done. When I level, I go out and mine and do mining missions. I never cared about what I was dumping onto the station, I was just doing it for XP. Other people in the squad will go out and haul a few load of ore in for money when they are running low. There is a lot of economy being produced by people who don't pay attention to it every day. Dedicated stations would hamper this.

I do like the idea of dedicate production runs. Consumer A shows up, dumps a few loads on the market and leaves. This gets filtered to everything. Producer B shows up, and dumps a commod into Bin C. Some %, based on normal market factors, is dedicated to the production of Commod C. It continues producing Commod C until it runs out of materials. After D amount of time, all excess materials from Bin C are put onto the general market, either for other production or for purchase. This continues the incidental production, and ensures Bin C doesn't sit there with a lot of commods out of play because it's missing Commod E to produce Commod C.