[ELPIRATA]

We're still waiting for this.

Outpost has no ammunition available... thus... no ship should be able to launch with a full supply of ammo for their guns. I could understand you launching with whatever you had left, but not with a full supply. With a big ammount of players, having the stuff stations need... shouldnt be a problem, but just in case it were to happen... I would suggest that ammo-weapons bought had a minimun ammount of ammo in them, like when you buy a cheapo printer that you always get 1 cartridge (some people say that these dont even have the same capacity as when you buy a new cartridge).


Of course, this should be also affecting other commodities and their uses.

Some consumables will be mostly for ship re-supply, but there should be also some for station usage, like water and food and other ammenities. For example, I hope both POS (if they make it) and faction stations can get damaged, perhaps not destroyed but well damaged. Then, you could have construction materials or armor or other stuff to use on the repair process.

A mission could be launched for a repairing of the radiation protection (taking on Jump's comment on another thread) and such and you would go out, target the location and do you work.

I can get derailed easily too, but basically the idea is for consumables to WORK this time, this also makes for further apreciation of the haulers, new folks (their small shuttles could be perhaps the best choice for the repair work) and the miners who continually provide the minerals needed for them.

BTW, all factions should have at least have one station where to produce these, it doenst make sense to depend on the enemy for a supply of fuel cells or electronics and such.

ELP

[netburnr]

So what about beer, can we actually consume them for real this time and maybe when we launch our screens will be all blurry and controls act funny?

BTW, the ink that comes with printers is indeed a lower capacity.

[Wild_Bill]

hmm Elpirata, are you suggesting a noob mission to "take a repair gun and make repairs to..." X " for y credits and z experience"? I sort of like that idea. Repair missions available to low level players for credit/experience and very low risk, but not available to higher level players (sort of like Jellies). Keep repair jobs in station sectors to the various buildings (again to reduce risk). Good idea!

I like the idea of consumables affecting station operations beyond "slowing down production" when they run short of food or water. Actually having to launch without reloads, refueling or with damaged armor could be serious. For one thing, it might negatively affect the folks who use ammo guns (obviously I mean make ammo weapons less desirable to use because of a chance of not finding reloads). It gives some real meaning to some of the cargo runs as well. Moving ammo, fuel cells and armor would actually affect the game play, just like moving missiles, etc. Gives an even great meaning to ecconomy wars as well.

Absolutely like the idea of every faction making some minimum amount of everything their ships use (sort of like the only size 3 shield producer is Solrain... how much sense does that make for Octavia to have a ship that needs a size 3 shield but Octavia doesn't make one, not even a poor one?). No hostile faction monopoly on equipment or commodities, but it also makes sense that some factions would concentrate or be more efficient at producing a certain commodity or piece of equipment or as now just make a better product.

[dahalb]

Couple of things; love the idea that consumables can effect everyone and everything. Fuel Cell, Armour and Ammunition droughts should indeed effect pilots that land at those stations. Haulers would definitely be required to ensure stock levels which is +1+1+1+1+1 for me.

Also I think that factions should be self-sufficient for the most part but not completely. Military vessels should have everything they need within their own borders but civilian vessels now thats another story. Solrain might indeed be the only one to manufacture a size 3 shield but no Oct or Quant fighter should require it. That should be self evident in the design of such craft. No army, navy or Air force in its right mind would soley depend on an enemies production and trade relations to ensure it readiness and such. A civilian Octavian transport/mining ship might be able to accommodate a Solrain size 3 shield though. It just wouldn't be reliant on it. Certain things would be a speciality of certain factions though. They would, over time, develop unique technologies etc. They might perhaps be tied to whatever commodities they have that are unique or in more abundance than elsewhere.

I also think that for some commodities there should be monopolies however, i would even them out. Each faction might have 2 monopolies for example. They each must trade in order to get other things. This would actually stimulate the need for haulers and make them more a part of the game.

If everyone makes their own stuff then why bother ever leaving your own faction space? There needs to be a reason (or many reasons) to go outside your own space.

[ELPIRATA]

Well, I meant mostly about the consumables not the rest of the stuff. It would seem ilogical that quantar produced no ammo on any of their stations and that they'd have to depend on trade with octavious......

I can understand about some of the other stuff, but critical consumables for either station or ship resupply should be handled in-house, or at worst, some kind of ammo... if we may have different types of ammunition commodities (as mostly each gun uses different kinds).

ELP

[Karash]

I think we need to move past how 'things worked before' in the economy and go with wholly new systems. For example, Ammo should be made and sold by the players themselves, or produced at a higher cost by the NPC entities. There should always be a supply of consumables in the economy...but the options should be player driven.

[netburnr]

I think Karash is on to something here.

We know AI will be helping with the economy. However I like his idea that if the AI has to take care of stuff, it ups the price of whatever they bring in. Where as a player still makes a great profit, but the overall price of the stuff they bring in would be lower.

I also like this idea because if we have the ability to pirate the AIs, the people taking that risk can get more money out of it.

[Chaser]

I have an idea about player building ammo, etc. How about modules for your POS that lets you manufacture certain things, like ammo, or hull plates. Then frieghters could come and people could buy from you like a real factory. Not like gathering everything and going to XXX station to make it. Buy the module and make your POS a manufacturing station. Have a limit of 1 type of manufacturing per station, and run ads for miners saying what you'll pay for ores, etc, a new economy right here.

[netburnr]

Thats assuming POS makes its way into Jumpgate Evolution. Personally I would like to see them go away and have more player level stuff at the faction and unreg stations.

[Chaser]

Except for bragging rights and hoarding, pos had very little use in the old Jumpgate. But if done right, they could play an important part in the economy from the start. Just as people can invest in their own businesses in RL, so a player could start a business in Jumpgate. It would give more meaning to why they play and more challenges then shooting/mining/shooting everyday. It would give players something they like and need, ownership of something uniquely theirs.

[netburnr]

Yes, but the counter-argument that has gone on for awhile now is that POS hurt the feel of the game. Instead of everyone being around faction stations they were spread out all over the place. And from what I hear, these days space is full of crappy or dead POS that just further confuse players.

I liked the faction stations, I liked landing at them and seeing a huge playerlist of people there, and when POS came out that went away.

[Jump]

I have to agree that POS are a bad idea in a low player number game. The game lost it's "homeyness" when they came out. It might have been different with manufacturing at them but who knows. What we can't define is how they would have played out in a Jumpgate with 10,000 players online. That may have been a different story altogether.