[Tritian]

I seriously doubt anyone would argue with me, when I say the Depot Stations were very underutilized due to a complete failure of logic in their implementation.

1) The locations were a hassle to get to
2) The storage space was pathetically small
3) They lacked 'Hanger' functionality

To address these problems, I suggest the following:

1) Increase the amount of extra storage space you get per level so that a level 50 would have 150 units of storage space. 30 of those units would be a 'bonus' for hitting level 50 and 20 would be the bonus for hitting level 48.
2) Add 'storage' expansion modules you can buy to increase your storage.
- Maybe 50 units of storage for 20million credits, with a max of 1000 units.
3) Add 'hanger' expansion modules you can buy to add hanger capability.
- Maybe 1 hanger bay for 30million credits, with a max of 8 hanger bays
4) Position the depot stations to be the primary 'faction' station for people to spawn from. So that means that assuming the map of the three factions stays the same, SDS would flip with Wake, Oct Depot w/ OP, and Quant Depot w/ QC.

Effects:

The other faction stations deeper in faction space would still be visited often since they are the main production centers for things. There would have to be a factional effort to stock the depot stations with equipment so they can be used as a main launching/respawn point for most people. This idea would also have the effect of making POS's a lot less popular in the community, thus nullifying a lot of the problems inherently with them.

[dahalb]

I would start with 50 space @ lvl 0. Increasing 5 per level with a bonus at 26 of 25 and another bonus at 50 of 25. This would then total 350 units of space. This is not over the top and neither is it stupidly small. With weapons and equipment loadouts for a fighter costing around 40 space per loadout plus extra FF, arties and missiles etc 350 would get eaten up. This doesnt take into account the econ workers and their space requirements but as you say, they can buy more space.

Hangar space should be rentable or buyable at all stations not just the depots.

As for position, while i dont share your want to put the Depots in the front line, they do need to be better positioned. I would also change the rest of the stations around tho. The outpost stations or frontline stations should be smaller and geared toward military endeavours. Production should be centered around the core stations and the non-frontline stations and the depots should be closer to the action without actually being on the front line. To use sol space as an example, Sol Core should be up where SDS is and SDS should be where SC is, SC and Cornea should be the production centres for most things and Wake should be geared towards ensuring sol space is safe and launching assaults.

[Tritian]

Originally Posted by dahalb

I would start with 50 space @ lvl 0. Increasing 5 per level with a bonus at 26 of 25 and another bonus at 50 of 25. This would then total 350 units of space. This is not over the top and neither is it stupidly small. With weapons and equipment loadouts for a fighter costing around 40 space per loadout plus extra FF, arties and missiles etc 350 would get eaten up. This doesnt take into account the econ workers and their space requirements but as you say, they can buy more space.

What does a lvl0 need w/ 50 units of storage?

I think your suggestion gives way to much space to the average joe. People need stuff to strive for and buy. Your suggestion would mean the vast majority of the server would never need to buy any space expansions at all.

The idea isn't to have so much space that you can horde or hide mass amounts of equipment at your depot rather then ensuring that the station is well stocked for everyone. What could the average pilot possibly need more then 150 units of storage for? Whatever it is, i'm sure it's logical to make them pay 20mill per 50 units more. To prevent people hording stuff AND economic exploits.

Originally Posted by dahalb

Hangar space should be rentable or buyable at all stations not just the depots.

Meh.

I don't see why.

Originally Posted by dahalb

As for position, while i dont share your want to put the Depots in the front line, they do need to be better positioned. I would also change the rest of the stations around tho. The outpost stations or frontline stations should be smaller and geared toward military endeavours. Production should be centered around the core stations and the non-frontline stations and the depots should be closer to the action without actually being on the front line. To use sol space as an example, Sol Core should be up where SDS is and SDS should be where SC is, SC and Cornea should be the production centres for most things and Wake should be geared towards ensuring sol space is safe and launching assaults.

You didn't give a reason why you feel the depot stations shouldn't be more prominent. I dont really see the benefit of having Wake in that position over the Depot. Can explain your logic?

My logic is that Wake produces things. And the depots shouldn't produce anything (wether it does or not i'm not 100% sure). So basically, it'd require more of a factional effort to keep the depot stocked and running, then Wake. That combined w/ the convenience of the depot stations other services would seem to make it the ideal base for everyone to spawn from. Thus requiring that it be in a similar position that Wake is in, or Outpost, or QC.

[ELPIRATA]

If pos are to be eliminated a small (even after the mod upgrades as you suggested) storage space wont suffice nor satisfy pilots around. The reason why people end up having a pos (even in a station sector) is so they have more storage (and the other added benefits of hangar and such). A 50 * level gives enough space for even a producer kind of pilot like me. At level 0 you get nothing, you're a recruit, get to level 1... and tadaaaa 50u of space, is a good motivational tool

The exchange of SDS with OP and Wake will create longer travel times. Any cargo that goes from sol space to oct space (actual map of course) gets to be a lot longer than before.

If we're talking about Jumpgate Evolution I would suggest adding 2 new stations, one set on each intermediate sector. For example, Vhook and The Rim/PrimusPoint. That way, pilots are closer to the fights or trade lanes when switching ships, but their main destinations dont get altered. Of course, this would apply if the map is going to remain the same, which we dont know.

I like the idea of being able to make upgrades, but with so small space...

ELP

[Jump]

This is all based on the assumption that there are Depot stations in Jumpgate Evolution.

[Wild_Bill]

True Jump. Currently the Depot station is a repository for commodities from ore collected at POS with Ore Silos and the Faction Ore Depot and provides some minor storage space for all faction pilots. It sells mining commodities at reduced prices and... that's it. It may NOT have any place in Jumpgate Evolution. It certainly make little sense to put it in "the back of beyond" as is the current practice.

Tritian I like your idea of having the "Depot" station out front in the sense of a depot station producing nothing. If it's damaged, nothing is lost but some storage. Your most vulnerable faction station would not be a major production center as they are in Jumpgate Classic. The front line station has to be kept stocked for the fighters and fluxers, so plenty of hauling jobs there.

Elpirata points out, it would make production or stocking runs more inconvenient, but that makes a certain kind of sense. In RL or Real History, front-line outposts weren't production centers. They did serve to provide supplies for those going beyond the frontier or as a gathering point for the harvest from the frontier area for shipment "back to civilization". Making the current Depot Stations the "outpost" does make sense from this perspective as well.

IF Montaughs "Equipment Package" insurance idea (from The Meaning of Death tread) was utilized, it would eliminate the need for a ton of storage space that's currently used to stock equipment for the inevitible pod ride. Particularly if rentable hangers (as Tritian included) were built in, there would be a greatly lowered need for storage for non-production pilots. Even at that, the production pilots would need much less storage space than they currently do.

Mark me down as in favor of both these ideas.

[dahalb]

Originally Posted by Tritian

What does a lvl0 need w/ 50 units of storage?
I think your suggestion gives way to much space to the average joe.

A lvl0 isnt gonnna use 50 but a lvl 10 might use the 100. Its just a starting point. As for the total being too big, I disagree but that just my opinion.

Originally Posted by Tritian

Your suggestion would mean the vast majority of the server would never need to buy any space expansions at all.

True, but then again if you take the current mix of pilots then most of them are middle of the road financially. Not uber rich with multiple 8 points. So giving the "average Joe" enough storage for PvPing and hiding his stuff makes sense to me. If he wants more he can buy it but he doesn't need to buy more by design.

Originally Posted by Tritian

The idea isn't to have so much space that you can horde or hide mass amounts of equipment at your depot rather then ensuring that the station is well stocked for everyone. What could the average pilot possibly need more then 150 units of storage for? Whatever it is, i'm sure it's logical to make them pay 20mill per 50 units more. To prevent people hording stuff AND economic exploits.

As i said before the loadout for a fighter is around 40, so 3 loadouts and a few extra FF's is all that you can store. Or if your an arty hunter and you store those for sale, then you can only have 2 loadouts.

Originally Posted by Tritian

You didn't give a reason why you feel the depot stations shouldn't be more prominent. I dont really see the benefit of having Wake in that position over the Depot. Can explain your logic?

It really has nothing to do with game mechanics or anything like that. My reason is to do with supply lines. Armies don't have the entire stock of their weapons, food etc at the bleeding edge of combat. They have supply lines. A forward outpost with a feed to that outpost from a secure supply depot. Now i realise that the Depot isnt quite the entire stock but you get what i mean.

Originally Posted by Tritian

My logic is that Wake produces things. And the depots shouldn't produce anything (wether it does or not i'm not 100% sure). So basically, it'd require more of a factional effort to keep the depot stocked and running, then Wake. That combined w/ the convenience of the depot stations other services would seem to make it the ideal base for everyone to spawn from. Thus requiring that it be in a similar position that Wake is in, or Outpost, or QC.

I wouldn't have the frontline outpost produce anything either other than perhaps some minor or insignificant commod. I also wouldnt spawn newbies at the frontline. They should come into the game with a little less danger. Let them find the danger as they become more confident. Newbies should be spawning where they can go about helping their faction but away from the most intense fighting. I just think sticking them in the thick of it from the first second might drive more away than would stay.

[Lordopic]

.

Originally Posted by dahalb
Hangar space should be rentable or buyable at all stations not just the depots.

Originally Posted by Tritian

Meh.

I don't see why.

Because some players have no interest in factionalism and would rather home at Aman or Hype, or Unreg, last thing I want to do is die in flux space and then have to come from deep inside sol space after re fitting at SDS, as it is now I cant remember the last time any of my accounts went to a depot, oh hang on lepluie about a year ago….

But then im sure ill get me a POS ASAP and build it in Aman space.

[Tritian]

Originally Posted by dahalb

A lvl0 isnt gonnna use 50 but a lvl 10 might use the 100. Its just a starting point. As for the total being too big, I disagree but that just my opinion.

I doubt a level 10 would need 100 in most any circumstance.

Originally Posted by dahalb

True, but then again if you take the current mix of pilots then most of them are middle of the road financially. Not uber rich with multiple 8 points. So giving the "average Joe" enough storage for PvPing and hiding his stuff makes sense to me. If he wants more he can buy it but he doesn't need to buy more by design.

What you are proposing is overkill for the sake of overkill, and that's never good. There are exploits that can be performed if people have massive amounts of storage, and thats why you should make people work and pay for extra storage.

Originally Posted by dahalb

As i said before the loadout for a fighter is around 40, so 3 loadouts and a few extra FF's is all that you can store. Or if your an arty hunter and you store those for sale, then you can only have 2 loadouts.

If you need more storage then simply buy some more expansions. As I said before, there is no need to have so much default storage that the expansions never get bought. It's just not good game design to have everything you need by default. There should be goals people strive for so people keep playing the game.

Originally Posted by dahalb

It really has nothing to do with game mechanics or anything like that. My reason is to do with supply lines. Armies don't have the entire stock of their weapons, food etc at the bleeding edge of combat. They have supply lines. A forward outpost with a feed to that outpost from a secure supply depot. Now i realise that the Depot isnt quite the entire stock but you get what i mean.

No, I dont know what you mean, because all you did was state an analogy that you admit doesn't apply to our situation. Can you try again?

Originally Posted by dahalb

I wouldn't have the frontline outpost produce anything either other than perhaps some minor or insignificant commod. I also wouldnt spawn newbies at the frontline. They should come into the game with a little less danger. Let them find the danger as they become more confident. Newbies should be spawning where they can go about helping their faction but away from the most intense fighting. I just think sticking them in the thick of it from the first second might drive more away than would stay.

Wake's location isn't exactly the 'Front Lines', so again I do not understand what you're talking about, and i'm beginning to suspect you don't understand either.

Originally Posted by Lordopic

Because some players have no interest in factionalism and would rather home at Aman or Hype, or Unreg, last thing I want to do is die in flux space and then have to come from deep inside sol space after re fitting at SDS, as it is now I cant remember the last time any of my accounts went to a depot, oh hang on lepluie about a year ago….

Alright, fine. Hangers at every station.

[dahalb]

You say 350 is too much, i say 150 is too small. Either we meet in the middle or we agree to disagree.

In the current setup the frontline station is wake from a Sol perspective. Its the station which sees the majority of combat. Its the station that is closest to the border of its most animus neighbour. How else would you describe a frontline station??? But you obviously don't get it and i'm not here to teach, so i wont continue with this line of discussion.