[dailatron]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Regardless, I shouldn't be forced to mine by game mechanics. That'll make a lot of people quit fast.

LOL.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by dailatron

LOL.

Laugh all you want, but it's the truth.

[vorlon31]

I think the idea where multiple deaths reduce exp TO your current level would be workable. Ive been limited for exp points since last November and have been bobbing along on 100mil exp ever since so the code to control exp to a set level exists, it would just need expanding to look at you rank and such to work on a per level basis.

You all seem to be discussing being killed down to a noob but what about exp loss just to your current level?

[dahalb]

Losing exp down to current level and the death debt both sound like workable ideas to me. The PvPers would more than likely have a very large debt after a while so the "to current level" loss would probably work better.

[ELPIRATA]

Ok, I think you guys arent paying attention to the purpouse of the thread. The idea was to give death a meaning because in wars between squads or factions, money loss simply dont cut it.

Wars wont end because of the pride involved in both parties and losing a war because you killed 25 and the enemy killed 26 is not a real measure of a winner. As I said, people in RL die, or their supply lines are cut and thus its comes a time when they can't fight so they either die or surrender.

In Jumpgate.. death as itself is inexistent, nobody dies, and in general.... there's too much bloody money around (due to the matt farms and such) that making a pvper broke means killing him/her over and over, which doesnt happen often.

The idea was so that wars had an end, and End that leads to a pause and a reconstruction time for the losing squad/faction untill they can be ready to fight again, and then it would start all over. It might be nonsense, but this what you do over and over, all the time, fight and kill and be killed and back and start over.

If people loses levels to a point in which they can't get in a fighting ship, basically you've won the war, there's no contention to this fact, the enemy can't fight anymore.

The other reason why the enemy would stop fighting and hence giving you the victory would be if their supply lines got broken somehow and they end up with no equipment to fight, or at worst... money.

This is the main idea.

For fluxxers... this mean nothing, and experience is something they can get back easily (at least still in Jumpgate Classic), and cargo haulers and miners the same, they are usually left alone.

For PvPers... is totally different, I'd hate losing exp and would either leave the squad or put effort on growing pvp skills or fly intelligent to not get caught by the enemy, but it gives you a new meaning and gets you to appreciate even more whats to be alive and a survivor after a battle.

To this day, OV wont lose untill they all go AFK or TRIC, and this would be horrible for the game. This has happened with many. Pride gets in the way, people live their RP's to the extreme and if they dont have numbers online, they dont log in.... and I dont think this is what we want to see.

ELP

[daslog]

ELP, I get what you are saying. I just think it's a bad idea.

[SingleShot]

I have generally found that higher costs of death are associated with me having less fun overall, and less "fighting the good fight", on the part of most people, to the extent that such a thing ever happens.

[Ambrosius]

Originally Posted by SingleShot

I have generally found that higher costs of death are associated with me having less fun overall, and less "fighting the good fight", on the part of most people, to the extent that such a thing ever happens.

This will always be the difference between the "fun=fighting" versus the "fun=playing" factions. I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong -- just that it seems pretty impossible to find middle ground.

[netburnr]

Originally Posted by ELPIRATA

The idea was so that wars had an end, and End that leads to a pause and a reconstruction time for the losing squad/faction untill they can be ready to fight again, and then it would start all over.

This part stuck out to me...

OEC fights Sol Navy. Sol Navy gets pwned into the ground and everyone looses their fighter status. Now you have a bunch of pissed of newbs in ships that are useless to them. Now Sol Navy has to make a decision. Do they all go out and flux, transport, whatever, to get their EXP back so they can fight a few more times before they loose it again, or do they just quit and never come back?

Whats to keep the strong from overtaking everyone? You thought it was a battle of numbers before? Just wait until half a faction has lost their fighter status and everyone else wants to join the winning side so they don't loose theirs.


I can see you wanting to add more to "death", but this just won't work man. How about HGs dont get insurance. Life the life of a bountied pirate for a little while and you will see what I mean, its EXTREMELY expensive dieing as a pirate and it ends your ability to fight very quickly when you start dieing a lot.

I just don't want to sit there and have to work my ass off for EXP to get to a fighter, then work my ass off to have enough money for a few spare kits, only to die and then have to re-level and bring my money back up. Thats twice as long before I can get back into the fun.


Sorry if I peed in your wheaties.

[dailatron]

Not sure how I missed this post before.

Originally Posted by ELPIRATA

Ok, I think you guys arent paying attention to the purpouse of the thread. The idea was to give death a meaning because in wars between squads or factions, money loss simply dont cut it.

Wars wont end because of the pride involved in both parties and losing a war because you killed 25 and the enemy killed 26 is not a real measure of a winner. As I said, people in RL die, or their supply lines are cut and thus its comes a time when they can't fight so they either die or surrender.

I dont think there can be a win/lose situation between factionist squads apart from the kill/death ratio. Octs fight Sols/Quants and visa versa. This is what was good thing about the tag system and ROE of squads. Hell OV and some of our enemies actualy allow and even sometimes escourt each other to restock so we can carry on fighting. For a squad like OV we dont want the war to end, we PvP thats what we do.

I much prefered the HG system, that was open to negotiation for ending a war because it was squad vs squad not faction vs faction.

Originally Posted by ELPIRATA

To this day, OV wont lose untill they all go AFK or TRIC, and this would be horrible for the game. This has happened with many. Pride gets in the way, people live their RP's to the extreme and if they dont have numbers online, they dont log in.... and I dont think this is what we want to see.

ELP

Indeed it is sad when enemies leave or dont log on, especialy because of wounded pride.

[Sephiroth]

Give PvP meaning not by turning the game into a job (which wont attract players for very long) but by allowing squads to change the landscape of the universe and capture sectors for their faction and such which provide advantages to that faction.

[Wild_Bill]

Sephiroth has a point. As near as I can tell from reading here and on JOSSH, plus in game, PvPers want MEANINGFUL combat. That seems to be what so affronted Sephiroth in my earlier post about "just fighting in the sim", because the combat there had nothing other than just the fight. No stats, minimal bragging rights, etc. At the same time, anything that's truly a "meaningful death" is going to lessen the pleasure in fighting. PvPers mostly want combat, just like PvEers mostly don't want combat. MAKING PvPers mine, haul or flux is no better than forcing PvEers to fight or be victims. No pleasure there for either side. In effect "bombing them back to the stone-age" or penalizing pilots back to noobage in this case, will not promote lasting relationships in Jumpgate Evolution nor tend to creat long term veterans in PvP.

Instead of a "Making Death More Meaningful" thread, perhaps this should be a "Make Combat More Meaningful" thread with some kind of a goal or reward for winning and a clear cut set of goals to achieve that win. In my thread "Faction