[GrimGriz]

1. What the hell is a carpet statement?
2. Anything prefaced with "In my observation" is destined to be a generalization, but generalizations aren't necessarily bad.
3. Ratha.

[netburnr]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

the majority of hardcore PvPers have never been interested in anything that could possible be a barrier to them logging on, blowing shiat up for two hours, and then logging off.

That is a carpet statement, you group all PvPers together stating we want nothing but Quake in space.

That is not true. There were many PvPers that would stay on all day. Some would roid for hours, some would haul for fun occasionally, some went arty hunting.

[SingleShot]

I totally MC farmed at some point. Mmmmmmm, nothing like a 6-7FF Condor to win the TOW race to the destination station.

[daslog]

Originally Posted by Tritian

Anvil, I do not mind new players getting into PvP. We were all new once, and I have personally spent countless hours in the sim training new people.

The problem is not that you are new. The problem is that you are saying things which are wrong.

Also, you seem to have a lack of understanding of just how obfuscated the MT system is. I could create several 'What If' situations for you regarding the obscure rules of the MT system and I bet you'd get a majority of them wrong.

Take this example:

You're an Oct and Octs are at war with Sol. You flip MT and take a mission to kill Sols. You also grab a BCU. While flipping in Sol space, you get attacked by a civilian. He lands the first shot, but you manage to kill him.

What are the results for the Civilian? What are the results for You?

Results:
Civ: gets nothing. No temp bounties, no demerits.
You: get a demerit for defending yourself against a civ attacking you. You're PR in Sol is massively dropped (perhaps 0 or 30pr, i forget which), and your home faction PR drops from whatever it was to 70. Now every mission you do only gives you 2 pr points.

Sound fair?

I could go on and on. Suffice it to say, your views that the MT system is simplistic show that you really have no idea how the MT system works. I've been dealing with it on-and-off since it was implemented, and I still have no clue what would happen if say, a civilian killed another civilian from a warring faction (i think their PR would be reduced to -120 and they'd be flipped pirate tags, but i'm unsure), or if a MT killed a fellow MT from the same faction. (maybe a demerit???)

I have 2 requests:

1) More example from Trit
2) Some actual documentation on the MT system. My Google-fu must be weak, cause I can't find a dam thing on the Jumpgate website about it.

[Hornet]

I think no matter what you do, there will always be a) those that want to play for the simulation aspects, production, economy, etc. and b) those that want to shoot anything they can. Some of a and b will do what they do for RP, some are just playing to play.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by netburnrol

That is a carpet statement, you group all PvPers together stating we want nothing but Quake in space.

Oh, my bad. I thought that was a blanket statement. I was almost positive carpet statements had something to do with lesbians.

[netburnr]

To-ma-toe, ta-ma-to

[Tritian]

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

In my observation, the majority of hardcore PvPers have never been interested in anything that could possible be a barrier to them logging on, blowing shiat up for two hours, and then logging off. They want lots of equipment at all times; they want lots of cash to finance their sprees, they don't want to have to worry about politics . . . insurance . . . or bounties. In short, they want FPS.

I don't see any way to bridge that gap between them and those who are interested in simulation game that includes real economy (including shortages), meaningful politics and accountability (everything you do has an impact on the game, on others and on yourself).

OK, now I think we're getting too far off topic. These issues are important, and probably should be discussed in their own thread. But they have little to do with the MT system.

[Algore]

Originally Posted by netburnrol

That is a carpet statement, you group all PvPers together stating we want nothing but Quake in space.

That is not true. There were many PvPers that would stay on all day. Some would roid for hours, some would haul for fun occasionally, some went arty hunting.

Afaik Ambro said "hardcore" pvp'ers. I agree with his point in this respect. There are different types of pvp'ers which I would group their different playstyles into, and one was hardcore as Ambro described.
Take the blinkers off peeps.

Regards
Al

[Ambrosius]

Originally Posted by netburnrol

That is a carpet statement, you group all PvPers together stating we want nothing but Quake in space.

That is not true. There were many PvPers that would stay on all day. Some would roid for hours, some would haul for fun occasionally, some went arty hunting.

Some, yes. But as I said -- in my observation -- that is not the case for most. I have known some who enjoyed RP and more challenge (Tesrend for instance). Buts "most" . . . no, not in my experience/observations.

Saying "ALL PvPers . . ." would be a blanket (carpet) statement. Which I did not make.

[netburnr]

Originally Posted by Algore

Afaik Ambro said "hardcore" pvp'ers.

Originally Posted by Ambrosius

I have known some who enjoyed RP and more challenge (Tesrend for instance).

I didn't even have to reply, you did it for me. Tesrend was one of the most hard core PvPers I've ever known.