[Grimm Ravensong]

I played Jumpgate for a week and loved it, the only thing keeping me from subbing is the lack of players.

That said I am full of ideas on what Jumpgate Evolution should be like, and I'm interested to see how the veterans of Jumpgate feel about them.


1) Classic Jumpgate game mechanics complete with manual docking and the duelist.

2) take the good from Eve
a- extremely large scale battles
b- bigger ships physically larger.. by a fair margin
c- bounty hunting, player bounties, smuggling, pirating, pirate hunting, territory wars, etc.
d- capital ship (ie. Eve's Titan) for fleet combat

3) Full clipping and collision with the exception of player ship to player ship, the same as it is now.

[vorlon31]

The problem I see with making Jumpgate evolution pvp battles large scale will be the inherent weaknesses of small ships. Simply put it take too few hits before a single player goes boom from skilled adversaries. Multiply the number of skilled enemy in an encounter and that time-till-boom count becomes non existent. So the individuals input into, and enjoyment out of, the battle (the thing that will put bums on seats for the next night) is dampened because for them it could of lasted just seconds before they had a pod ride and needed to re-equip again in some distant sector.

For the hardcore minority pvp'rs playing atm, that's fine. They meet their enemy in a sector and a few seconds later its over one way or another. All that's left then is the bragging/jeering and occasional "gf" that flashes across comms.

I once suggested that weapons damage be halved so that an individuals pvp time, their combat exposure, increased but that was slated because it gave the enemy longer run away time. (course, if things like 'slow' missiles are in Jumpgate Evolution that would be a new dynamic to them running away I think).

For me though, it is the combat exposure time that puts me off pvp in Jumpgate Classic. The facts of pvp are;

If your rubbish, you die quick.
If your good, you die quicker - your enemy soon learn and make you target number 1...
If your mediocre you'll last longest.
Or being a good pvp'r, you surround yourself with equally good pvp'rs (increasing your survival rate) and then wonder why no-one fights you.

Large cumbersome AI Fleet ships, like a flying Wake (station) to use a Jumpgate Classic'anism would be the answer to large battles I'm thinking. Ships so large that peewee single seater's cant destroy them (just weaken**), but who will ultimately be pitted vs their AI opposites who take advantage of the damage done by the single seater's homed with them.

So, the 'Wake' carrier sets off and all the military participants dock and /home there. Then they are free to escort it towards the enemy or sit onboard and take a free ride to the battle field and avoid any adhoc skirmishes along the way. Once at the destination 'battlezone' and alarm alerts all docked ships to launch and as the 'Wake' and its counterpart(s) slowly move in towards each other in prep for unleashing their carrier destroying weapons, the single seater's fight the enemys player fighters that came from their 'Wake' and also they can attack that carriers destructible carrier assets (thus weakening the carrier for their carrier to destroy). Any fighters shot down during the battle can launch re-equiped from their home carrier for as long as it remains whole.

Once one of the carriers is destroyed, its fighters loose their /home and when killed they now return to their core stations.

So your battle dynamics are;
Hunt the enemy carrier as you fly ahead of yours to the battle zone and skirmish their fighters/damage their carrier assets.
Escort and defend your own carrier to battle.
Wait and launch into battle fresh/keen when the alarm calls.
Defend your carrier's assets during the battle.
Attack your opponents carrier assets.
Attack their fighters while others sneak past to attack the enemy carrier assets.
and so on...

That sounds like it could be a BIG battle maker and fun too. In fact, where do I sign up?

**weaken by the destruction of the carrier assets. Weapons turrets. Observation decks. Targeting arrays. Missile launchers. (and in doing so reduce the carriers 'hit points' making it easier for their own carrier to strip the remainder).

[sarah-mari]

I dont know anything about how and why games work. I have always wondered why ideas like vorlons never got implemented into Jumpgate. Jossh has under database single pilot vessels. I do understand there are many reasons that Jumpgate Classic never saw multi person ships. I would love to know if Scorch has plans for these kinds of ships or at least write the code so it might be put in at a latter date.

[sarah-mari]

Carriers sound kewl......i imagine a faction navy would have the single fighters and a few other different sized multi-pilot ships. large ships do not need to go through jumpgates to get to the other side of the map.....that is where all those interesting engine classes that where to be in EP2 that never made it come into play.

[ELPIRATA]

Just wanted to mention...

Being a mediocre pilot doesnt guarantee that you will be left alive for the last picking. To some pilots, those who want a quick kill, they will just target you and eliminate you because you're that easy kill to get, then you can focus on the other skilled pilots.

So, nothing guarantees that you will be target number 1, is just the call of the enemy fleet leader.

ELP

[xerout]

I like all the ideas I've seen here. It would be very cool to /home on a carrier but when it's destroyed you return to whatever base you were originally homed at. I'd have a maximum number of respawns on the carrier in battle though...5 or so before you respawn at a base even if the carrier still exists. This would allow a carrier to be overwhelmed in battle based on the skills of it's fighter pilots.

Xerout

[beginner]

It's only one shot kill if you aim well enough, and it should take many small ships to down one ship. If their teamwork is compatentable.

[dahalb]

I love to PVP. I would prefer that it was "harder" to kill ppl though. What i mean by that is, it should take longer.

Think of a nix with the armour from a tug and a size 4 shield. A tensy with the armour from a tow and a size 5 shield etc OR conversely, power down all weapons so they do slightly less damage.

[vorlon31]

Originally Posted by dahalb

I love to PVP. I would prefer that it was "harder" to kill ppl though. What i mean by that is, it should take longer.

Think of a nix with the armour from a tug and a size 4 shield. A tensy with the armour from a tow and a size 5 shield etc OR conversely, power down all weapons so they do slightly less damage.

I liked the rocky film where he had to fight the russian dude. In the end they were stood toe to toe whacking each other as hard as they could, with the last of their strength, until finaly, at last and ultimately....

The same film with Jumpgate Classic's ship versions of the glass jaw wouldnt of made a good* film. (*Im sure that status is debatable by some).

Jumpgate Classic fights are "wam bam thank you ma'am" and hopefully Jumpgate Evolution's will be of more substance.

[Karash]

While I play a lot of Eve Online, I wouldnt go as far as your list of what to put in for Jumpgate Evolution. Most of the big macro stuff that Eve does well probably wont work in reality for Jumpgate Evolution (Titans, POS, Warfare, etc). However, the focus on having every ship be useful in some meaningful way is something Jumpgate Evolution should aspire to. It shouldn't matter if you are in a light fighter or a carrier in a game...everyone should have strengths and weaknesses when flying in Jumpgate Evolution.

Additionally, the tens of thousands of ways you can equip your ship should be stressed as well.

[Jonboy]

Originally Posted by dahalb

I love to PVP. I would prefer that it was "harder" to kill ppl though. What i mean by that is, it should take longer.

Think of a nix with the armour from a tug and a size 4 shield. A tensy with the armour from a tow and a size 5 shield etc OR conversely, power down all weapons so they do slightly less damage.

With pilots who are good at evasion, fights can last as long as a few minutes. Currently, making a fight last longer is skill-based. If the current ships were used, but with more defenses, a good pilot would be able to last a very long time. With that said, speed is currently the most important stat for evasion. The nix is not a great ship for evasion, and so the pilot has to have a different mentality for fighting, forcing the opponent to evade, or die. I'm not saying your preference is bad. But you would have to rebalance the ships completely to get it right.

[dahalb]

Originally Posted by Jonboy

I'm not saying your preference is bad. But you would have to rebalance the ships completely to get it right.

That's probably not a bad idea either. I think i posted this elsewhere but just in case i didn't, if ships were balanced on a fleet level rather than just a ship to ship level, then i think we might see more diversity.

For example, 1 Bomber > 1 TUG > 1 Fighter > 1 Bomber. This is simplified obviously but hopefully you get the idea.