[Tim]

Originally Posted by Wild_Bill

For the stripper defense, I re-suggest my idea of a separate station for the Military Tagged folks. It would ALWAYS have combat equipment, either by NPC, magic or *gasps* civilian cargo/equipment missions! Only military folks could buy from it. Civilians could only sell there (i.e. complete their mission). This way a stripper only affects the non-combat population, not the combat folks. An inconvenience for sure, but hardly a fight-stopper.

NIiiiiiiice.. that might make an interesting thread of it's own, Wild_Bill.

Making 'current tag' a requisite of equipment purchasing, along with PR and level.. Cool idea.

[Tstrike3]

Originally Posted by vorlon31

may I ask you how it was so famed for its civ rip culture before it became the WWS?

Thats bull**** (sorry Jump for the language)... the US server was famed for pilots having skills and folks policing themselves versus RUNNING to the GMs to help them hold their hands.

Civ-rip culture assertion is a cry for someone who doesnt want to interact with the general player community. This is an MMO not a FPS. It about time (and that is being done in this discussion) to acknowledge that factoid and make an informed decision: Do I want to interact with other pilots or don't I? Do I want to play Jumpgate or not?

Look I know some folks are coming from the Carebear, my GM runs my game for me, pansy EU Jumpgate Classic world... But welcome to your Next Life.. The real Jumpgate... I don't mean it as an insult, I am just calling it the way I and others see it.

Dont make assertions like civ-rip culture unless you can apply facts.

[TexMurphy]

Stop the EU vs US bashing right now.

Both servers had a generalized view of the other which was in many cases incorrect.

EU by a generalized view saw the US server as a civ ripping greifing space quake server.

US by a generalized view saw the EU server as a station hiding arty cheating chicken poooop server.

Both these views are wrong. The servers where different and as always classifying a different culture through generalizing is wrong.

Both servers had their arses, their bad stuff just as much as they had the great people and the good stuff.

Lets leave it at that.

Tex

[vorlon31]

My post wasn't supposed to be pitting one servers rep vs the other and the question however misread and misused was simple, if the us server of old was self policing, why was it so famed for its civ rip culture. Taking offence to the question is pointless because the fact is it was so famed. I had heard of liet, rollio etc while I still played on the eu server (ergo the famed part), I had heard that civ ripping was considered commonplace there too. Whether you declare the basis of those rumours to be wrong or not is your prerogative, but that perception did exist and that fact is the basis of the question.

All I am saying is don't hero idolise this ludicrous theory of a self governing playerbase that from the outside wasn't seen to exist. People cheat, people are sneaky and people take advantage where advantages are there to be taken, in rl and in games.

[vorlon31]

And beyond anything else, Ive played Jumpgate for just over 5 years, 3 of which on the EU server of old and 2 here on the WWS. If I didn't like the servers set up, I simply wouldn't log into it would I? And I do log in.

As far as I am concerned, the EU server is past history as is the US server and long live the WWS (*cough*.. not sure how long for with Jumpgate Evolution looming).

[alphabet]

There was a time when factionalism was prized by all factions. A few pilots that werent factionalists would hang in unreg or on the fringes and play their own RP. Squad and factional politics were adhered to, but also fluid (meaning a squad could be allies one day and enemies the next). Most of all civrips came from squad tensions where squads would declare war on one another. Civrips outside of this norm were dealt with, usually on a server-wide basis to maintain the harmony of politics that were in place and to also have a pride in knowing that your squad was "honorable" and could be trusted to form an alliance.

This went to hell when it became pretty impossible to be a factionalist, moreover EP2 sorta drove players away from factionalism. When most of the large, factional squads left Jumpgate, so did the policies/politics that were in place. Jumpgate became basically a barren wasteland where even faction space, that was relatively safe, became the wild wild west.

Were there a few trouble makers during this time of self-policing? Sure, but they thought twice about their rips, knowing the whole server would come after them.

I really could care less about the EU/US arguments. In fact it makes my pee pee hurt. But, dont believe for one instant that during the US hayday, that we didnt police ourselves. We did the best we could with what little we had to work with.

[Tstrike3]

Originally Posted by TexMurphy

Stop the EU vs US bashing right now.

Both servers had a generalized view of the other which was in many cases incorrect.

EU by a generalized view saw the US server as a civ ripping greifing space quake server.

US by a generalized view saw the EU server as a station hiding arty cheating chicken poooop server.

Both these views are wrong. The servers where different and as always classifying a different culture through generalizing is wrong.

Both servers had their arses, their bad stuff just as much as they had the great people and the good stuff.

Lets leave it at that.

Tex

I confess that my response was a bit belligerent and for that I apologize. But this continued cry for GM intervention or AI intervention regarding civ-ripping is a farce and that sickens me to no end (unless it is an act of griefing). Tex is correct in his statements (Thank you Tex, and when are we gonna see you back?*grin*).

Adapt, adjust, and overcome is the very hallmarks of our Jumpgate home. Policing griefers is a GM action and I am confident ND has that in hand despite our perceptions otherwise. If we want to address GRIEFING fine, but if we want to discuss avoiding player interaction by artifical means I am not for it.

I am concerned (and selfishly so) with maintaining the integrity of Jumpgate by our beloved developers, so that other players (new and old) can enjoy the "Jumpgate experience". This experience makes our beloved MMO unique. I do not want to see it destroyed or reverted into a toothless Tiger.

I think others share that persepective.

[Sephiroth]

vorlon, civripping wasn't commonplace on the US server. We had a few people here and there who took it over the top but it's not like everyone did it just because. It was just generally accepted more here as part of the game. This may have lead to it being done more frequently here then on EU but it isn't as bad as people would have you believe.

Liet wasn't some evil civripping griefer, like you've just made him out to be. He was just a damn good pilot.

Tex is right, everyone needs to stop generalizing and start thinking about ways to make Jumpgate Evolution successful.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by Tstrike3

if we want to discuss avoiding player interaction by artifical means I am not for it.

You also seem to only be happy if YOU have the advantage (firepower) in the interaction. You also seem pretty closed minded about this. I get the impression you have a very rosy view of the jumpgate past. Let me remind you, Jumpgate the way it was ended up with us here, celebrating when 55 people get online. There obviously was problems. How bout you try to help solve the problem rather than insist it never existed?

[daslog]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

vorlon, civripping wasn't commonplace on the US server. We had a few people here and there who took it over the top but it's not like everyone did it just because. It was just generally accepted more here as part of the game. This may have lead to it being done more frequently here then on EU but it isn't as bad as people would have you believe.

Liet wasn't some evil civripping griefer, like you've just made him out to be. He was just a damn good pilot.

Tex is right, everyone needs to stop generalizing and start thinking about ways to make Jumpgate Evolution successful.

I'm not sure what game you were playing, but when we used to camp QC looking for a fight 3 or 4 civs would get ripped right there on a nightly basis.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by daslog

I'm not sure what game you were playing, but when we used to camp QC looking for a fight 3 or 4 civs would get ripped right there on a nightly basis.

Oh, I'm sorry. I must be completely wrong. The EUers had the right idea about the US server. Everyone constantly civripped day/night. No one ever fought HG vs. HG and the entire server population was constantly flying with a permanent bounty.

I'm sorry I made such a horrible mistake daslog.


Seriously though, I didn't say that civs were never killed, I said it wasn't as bad and common as the EU population had been led to believe. But with dumbass posts like this, it's not hard to see why that's what they believe.

But whatever. Also daslog, reading comprehension ftw.