[Karash]

Originally Posted by Injustice

Something tells me you've never encountered a gate-camping gank fleet using an Interdictor before.

Haha, yea maybe he meant High Sec space? Anyway...0.0 space in Eve is very deadly if you do not have the standings set with the alliance that controls that region.

[daslog]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

NO. Safe zones would be the worst addition to Jumpgate thus far.

It's easy to make a statement like this. Can you justify why it's not a good idea?

[Karash]

Well I do remember how everyone is SO FOND of the beta days and all that happened there....including many that are on this forum. Well beta didnt have tags...it was player enforced security everywhere.

Now everyone knows why ND put the tag system in...to protect new players. I am just saying it did more harm to the game than good.

[Dedsquirrl]

Originally Posted by daslog

It's easy to make a statement like this. Can you justify why it's not a good idea?

Do you mean like "True" safe zones, where you can't shoot at each other, period?

Probably see a lot of folks jumping too and fro to recharge shields.
Just like civs used to do between unreg and reg space.

I really like the idea of AI patrols.
They may not be able to down a vet pilot.
But it could prompt global alerts that PC factionalists could respond to.

[daslog]

Originally Posted by Karash

Well I do remember how everyone is SO FOND of the beta days and all that happened there....including many that are on this forum. Well beta didnt have tags...it was player enforced security everywhere.

Now everyone knows why ND put the tag system in...to protect new players. I am just saying it did more harm to the game than good.

Netdevil basicly copied the EverQuest/Asheran's Call model of a PVP Switch. It didn't work in any of the games. The problem they are trying to solve is the same though:How do you keep your players from quitting when they get griefed?

It's either Safe Zones,a PvP chip, or watch the population drop to almost no one.

Take your pick

[Sephiroth]

It's not a good idea because of all the reasons that have already been posted on this forum (go read Jump's thread about what he'd do if he designed the universe of Jumpgate or whatever, there is an OT discussion about safe zones).

And those aren't the three options. You don't need those things to have a successful game and keep people interested.

[Wild_Bill]

I think you need tags of some sort. Something to tell the average person you're interested in combat or that you're not intersted. At least that's the way I looked at, and used, the HG tags. The current MilTags means ten missions of being a target for every other hostile factional MT pilot. If you like that, it's wonderful. I didn't much enjoy it myself.

Of course, if there were high penalties for attacking a non-combat ship (which is pretty much what we have now) that would be okay with me too. "Safer" zones in high traffic or more "civilized" areas partolled by NPC or factional PvPers is cool as well and should work okay.

Anyone remember Elite and how that worked with the Police when your reputation got too evil? Or how sectors were rated for danger? I like that as well.

[ventura]

Civ ripping occurs as there was no reason to encourage civilian shipping. Actually, there were strategic benefits (eg denial of resources) to civ ripping in addition to the sheer joy of blasting another ship.

If the lack a meaningful multi-factional civilian shipping resulted in loss of combat effectiveness, not just for the victim faction but for the agressor faction then the deterence may work.

Think in terms of hockey and a penalty for the offending players faction. In addition, how about some type of bonus for the player being attacked 4 to 1?

This is a new game, please do not place us in the a box that nobody likes and did not work very well.

[Karash]

Right, if there was a viable reason to encourage civilian shipping (even with escorts) then the economy pressures should be able to 'bring out the bears'. But no bear should be able to operate as a sole operator without fear of attack...thats really bad gameplay and that is why matter was farmed.

[GrimGriz]

I ask everyone in this to consider the conclusion I have come to regarding civ ripping in Jumpgate:
The main reason it sucked to get civved in a non-pvp ship was: The ship wasn't designed for PvP.

It was like ND made a PvP game, and then put mining and cargo hauling in to lure in victims.

NEWS FLASH: It's not fun being a victim!

I remember when they added new ships they tried very hard to "make sure this won't be used for PvP." To me, that's one of the top 5 mistakes of Jumpgate Classic.

Take an in-character look at the situation. You have 'x' amount of material you need mined or hauled. Your entire territory is under alien attack, as well as the added risks of hostile factions and space pirates. You need to design a ship that can mine and haul AS IF BAD THINGS WERE GOING TO HAPPEN rather than ships designed to function as if nothing bad were going to happen.

It is my FIRMEST belief that if ND wants the $$ from non-pvp players, they need to alter the non-pvp ships for Jumpgate Evolution so that they can:

• Fight back.
• Run away.
• Survive until help arrives.

Even with full of stupid-heavy ore. This is a galaxy at war, and non-pvp ships should be redesigned accordingly. It should take at least 2 fighters to take down the big ships (freighter/HM) imo, and a lot of luck and skill to win a fight versus the medium ones or to catch the small ones (for a single fighter).

I think if you make this one simple change, you can pretty much do away with the tag system altogether (except for RP reasons and military features, those were actually really cool).

[Aphelion]

GG's post is really funny and is the first one that really struck home to me his idea that he's been pushing FOREVER about giving haulers enough shields to last until reinforcements arrive. I always thought he was crazy, but now I realize that TRI was crazy for sending out people in stupidly unprotected mining ships.

It would be pretty awesome if you could last long enough/run fast enough to ask for help in the local defense channel, then maybe 50% of the time actually survive the encounter. I mean, lets face it, we all know that if someone wants to civ you unexpectedly, the person doing the civving has the advantage as opposed to the unsuspecting (or suspecting, but fat with ore) hauler.

Originally Posted by GrimGriz

It was like ND made a PvP game, and then put mining and cargo hauling in to lure in victims.

NEWS FLASH: It's not fun being a victim!

So funny!

[daslog]

At least Griz gets it. The Original Jumpgate ate it's own. We lost so many haulers did we lose because they got ripped one too many times, and all that time that spent mining went down the drain. We have to keep at least some of those players!

I loved having an open universe where I could shoot anyone. As Griz put it, it's not fun being the victim. There are too many games for them to play for them to waste their time getting ripped in Jumpgate.

We need to create a system where they can be safe when they want be, but with stron incentives to engage in PvP. My proposal does that by making Unreg the place to be once pilots reach the endgame.

If we don't do something to protect the haulers, they will just leave the game in droves (again) and we will end up with 25 pilots online every night.