[Injustice]

I've been told the new PvP tag system needs work. So from your perspectives, what's broke and how can the devs fix it? I've heard everything from a revised system to going back to the old civ/HG system, to doing away with tags altogether.

[Elmdor]

The mil map has made any attempt at stealth all but pointless.Either you carry a BCU and flip as you go, or get seen. Mil missions are good, but the beacons are bad.

[Ambrosius]

I like the mil map feature. I like beacons being meaningful. I'd even like to have them provide more tactical info -- like ship #s.

Inj, the big problem with the Mil system is that there was a second part to it that was never implemented. It was also intended to be a system where WAR state was influenced by the pilots, but everyone complained so loudly that they could not fight whenever they wanted, that they simply forced the WAR meters into the red.

It's one of those things that people will never all agree on.

[dailatron]

I personaly dont like the MT tags and would much rather have HG back. I dont understand how my faction can be at war with another faction yet their civs can come into my faction anytime they wish, makes no sense.

Plus I cant take my MT freighter (with or without escort) into quant core and take stuff anymore.

Squads fighting rather than factions was much better, more realistic and playable in my book. Id much rather have my faction deny responsibility for my/squads actions but secretly welcoming it, for instance a pay out for every non loyal Oct kill I get, free 100% insurance while HG and change MT missions to HG missions.

[Ambrosius]

Originally Posted by dailatron

I dont understand how my faction can be at war with another faction yet their civs can come into my faction anytime they wish, makes no sense.

I agree (slaps self -- "get ahold of yoursef! What are you saying, man! Have you lost your mind?").


Of course since most PvPers want freedome to fight other PvPers all the time, there are practicalities to deal with. It would have been better if there were "shades of grey" like:

Hostility - MTs can fight at will but don't get mil insurance subsidy and Civs get taxed higher and some key equipment may be tagged as "contraband" for opposing faction civs to haul.

Conflict - MTs fight at will, insurance is subsidized. Enemy Civs may be downed if they venture into your space. You will take a PR hit (-20?) from their faction, but will not receive a demerit.

War - MT insurance is 100% subsidized, with Civ @75% of equip AND cargo 100% subsidized; Enemy Civs may be downed or robbed. You will take a PR hit (-20rip ... something less for theft) from their faction, but will not receive a demerit. "War" status would be reserved for short-term, storyline driven "events." You could even set all opposing factional-pilots' PR to 0 when there was a war.

This achieves the factionalism the devs seemed to want. It would have to be balanced so that Hostility was common, Conflict was rare and War was only a "special event."

[Eraser55]

What about, if in time of war, Any civ in hostile space would be a legal target.

Hostile space would be defined with beacon color.

So if a quant civ is in gurge and gurge is turned red. Then oct MTs can kill him without getting a bounty.

This could like contribute to territorial warfare. If one faction turned so many beacons to their color that the other faction could not mine in peace before they take back their territories.

Also make it so that only MT pilots with bcu can turn beacons.

There is one problem, and that is how would haulers/producers get around in time of war. To make equip?!

[Ambrosius]

LOL, you typed faster than me!

[dailatron]

Eraser what is this thing you have about wanting to kill civs ?.

The only MT/HG pilots tuning beacons is genius especialy now, but killing civs just because you can I dont like. I dont think we should limit what civs can do just for the sake of PvPers.

If we stick with factional hatred we need neutral sectors between factions for the purpose of trade, that way any non Oct in Oct space during war status should get a temp bounty and anyone and their dog can kill them. Another faction would get higher/perm bounties attached to them for pilots, but the further into the core area they are the less the bounty is worth (to encourage defending outer sectors).

Actualy while spectulating is nice it seems pretty pointless as we really have no control over what ND do with Jumpgate.

[Loxly]

down with tags all together. Civ tags are why people feel that they should never be targeted...oh wait....that was 3 or 4 years ago....

umm... still yank the damn tags. everyones a target anyway afaic

[Eraser55]

Hey dail, I just want everyone to be included in the fun

Its not that I enjoy killing civs. But I enjoy everyone doing something that contributes to gameplay someway. It is a MMO game. And in any mmo, Players should be forced to interact with each other even if they just like to lick rocks and not hurt anyone. Im really tired of the those people whining when they get killed about how they just want to have fun in peace.

A MMO where everyone does their own thing without having to interact with each other is a dead game.

[Tim]

There are a great number of ways to interact with other pilots.. combat is just one.

What i seem to hear being described as 'interaction' is more aptly described as 'combat'.

Perhaps everybody should be forced to only drive tows and trade with each other? That would be forced interaction..

The question before us is how do we treat Player Vs. Player. That doesn't mean that every interaction between two players must end in combat, or some method of avoiding combat. There are things outside the PvP arena.

But for those things _within_ the combat arena, does the military tag do the job? (Granted, it does fail to enforce a mandatory pvp attitude, but enforcing such a gameplay style is not the goal of the tag system.)

[TheRag]

Originally Posted by Eraser55

Im really tired of the those people whining when they get killed about how they just want to have fun in peace.

The good news is most of them would probably just quite so you wouldn't have to listen to them for very long. Ofcourse, that would mean the loss of paying customers, but who needs them anyway?

And exactly why do you have such a fixation on killing non PvP ships? Not everyone wants to PvP. Not everyone wants to haul. Not everyone wants to arty hunt. Not everyone wants to mine, and not everyone wants to flux. Do you divide your time equally between the five activities? Or do you just fly around looking for non PvP people to shoot so they can have as much fun as you do?