[Injustice]

I would really like to have more information about the AI impact on the economy in Jumpgate Evolution. Specifically, does the AI serve as a way to keep station stocks balanced, or is it going to be more or less static (i.e. the Oct AI automatically ships 10% of Hyperials daily output of dream engines to OC). This is all theoretical using the current market system and equipment, obviously.The reason I'm asking is because I'm tossing around an idea I had regarding an economy-based faction warfare system. It would work if the AI help was static, or only delt in raw materials. Not so much if the AI was designed to compensate for player stocking of stations.

[SlimPickns]

I dont know what you have in mind but i should mention things in the current eco that could impact pvp but not cripple the pvp enviroment.

First off i should mention everything can be replaced so packing off all of somthing is not the end of the world.

I like the idea of relieving the foes of one item of the recipie to make somthing, ie aluminum for missles, cobalt for guns. At the very least some food stuffs to burn commods with inefficency.

The reason i dont do this now is i cant haul with a miltary tag of some kind to let the foes know i am up to no good. It just isant the same to haul civ with hostile intent.

If the AI ballances stocks its ok when the political relations are friendly. But when they are hostile Same faction AI needs to go get the commods so peeps are not shooting up traitor bots hauling contraban.

The items in the eco conflict need to be identified and blocked on the pve market. The contraban items need to be only bought by taged players willing to put it on the line.

So something like aluminum could interupt production of missles but never stop the production. (assuming that faction has any miners at all)...The aluminum will be stocked daily so theres somthing to fight over often.

What this type of eco warfare does, is involve the entire comunity in the RP. miners haulers and fighters. Its basicly a production war.

[ELPIRATA]

Im thinking on the AI acting as a support thing, nobody brings common ore in some days, we need it bad.. and even after the mission computer giving a bonus for common ore is not coming, well, plan B, lets launch some AI miners to provide what we need.

Another option, Station needs grain (AI miners can't do it), it has a mission for grain but again, nobody does it. Mission computer grants a bonus due to urgency (which is most probably not a good idea, since everybody will wait till the bonus is in effect to do it) but still people dont take the mission. Ok, plan b, AI launches a hauler looking for grain elsewhere in the galaxy, comes with what they need and cover the needs.

As you can see these are last resort actions, which is what I would expect the AI to do. If we have haulers and miners online and they are doing their missions, perhaps the AI server won't see the need to spawn AI haulers or miners.

I dont think the AI server is there to do the player's work

ELP

[vorlon31]

Its been said that the AI server can do all that we could do. I am sure though that it wont go as far as deliberately mucking up the econ to suit some nefarious goal as players have been known to do from time to time and theoretically IT should work to undo such player actions as soon as they occur.

No one but the stripper likes stripping and player created shortages should be negated by scores of AI haulers/miners and formation flying escorts*.

*As we now know the AI is formation flying capable.

[halley_dooken]

There should be some type of special gameplay feature, where level 26 and up can hire AI hauling ships to haul cargo from one station to another, factional or player owned.

The player has to pay up front though.

The AI pilot will pay back the player around 80% of the credits for the equipment and commodites that is sold to the destinated station. 75% will get payed to the player if commodities get destroyed in space because their ships blew up.

If a ship gets destroyed before picking up equipment cargo, player will get like 90% of the equipment cargo costs back.

You want AI combat ships protecting them? Well that won't be a good idea because players should not be 100% lazy where it will give players a chance to play a role as a escort protecting cargo ships.
Edit: This feature still requires a lot of thinking so the following things can be preventable. Like certain types of hauling AI will only go from non-solrain station to solrain stations becaue they represent the faction.

[GrimGriz]

Originally Posted by halley_dooken

You want AI combat ships protecting them? Well that won't be a good idea because players should not be 100% lazy where it will give players a chance to play a role as a escort protecting cargo ships.

There's no reason to have AI replace non-combat pilots and not replace combat pilots unless you're trying to find a way to tell the non-combat pilots to find a different game.

[SlimPickns]

Originally Posted by vorlon31

No one but the stripper likes stripping and player created shortages should be negated by scores of AI haulers/miners and formation flying escorts*.

*As we now know the AI is formation flying capable.

Ok this is a rant on striping the only one i will ever post.. maybe.

There is no such thing as striping. It is a term that the players have dreamed up along time ago. If a item has a price on it in a station it is for sale to anyone. The factions agreed to the open market when they made the civ tags, instaled bounties for shooting civs in reg space.

Proof of the fact that there is no such thing as striping is the cargo mission generator. Cargo missions often have missions for commods that are not produced at the mission generating station. The only penality for taking commods or gear from nonproducing stations is a hit in the pocketbook.

By having the player base embrace the term striping it has made alot of for profit haulers outcasts, when they are doing honest work. Its the players fault that there is not enough for profit haulers to haul. Its like i made 100 synths, but if anyone takes them, you will be labled a striper and shot. Even after i put them on the market, knowing KTRI says shiping anything with a price on it is protected by the three factions with the civ treaty.

Thats one of the basic problems with factionilists. They are supposto police their factions space to make sure civ haulers are safe. Their faction signed the civ treaty, it is a open market. By leting any squad down any civ hauler in their space they are traitors to their faction.

If players dont want somthing shiped out of their space they should police haulers by scaning them. I fully believe some commods and gear need to be tied to the tension meter. These commods and gear can be limited to just two or three items for each faction. So they dont hurt civ haulers or have them haul items that would get them shot for.

So anytime someone mentions striping, they should remember NOTHING is ireplacable. If all the duelists end up in someones pos, go make somemore. If all the duelists end up in a foes station, go get em back.

The striping term has been used by lazy peeps that want to sit on their butts and not make anything.. or put their butts on the line to go get the item back there so upset about.

The term striping is probably the bigest hindrence to any meningfull RP involving cargo.

This game is set up to play using gear and commods as tools of war. By whining because all sz2 shields are gone from quant space, and taging the offender as a striper insted of a legitment combatent is like saying i dont want to play the game the way it is designed. It is the failure of the player base that the game is dead, terms like striper just lable legitment player actions.

The extent of the failure is illistrated in the fact that a taged striper is hunted by the entire server. Ignoring the fact that the three factions have signed treaties declaring free commerce between the factions while civ.

[netburnr]

Thats the stupidest pro-stripping argument I've ever heard.

You used duelist, so thats how I'll attack. Stripping was when one side would come in with a CIV tow, and remove something NEEDED for the other side so they could not fight anymore.

So an OCT factionalist goes and picks up all the needed commods, goes to the duelist CP, then takes them to the station. We are talking anywhere from 30 minutes to HOURs of work.

Now the sols come to the station, raise hell, so all the octs start coming over there to help defend. The sols now starting to get outnumbed have a CIV tow pilot come in, pick up all the duelist, and then crash them into the first object they see.

Now the fight is over because the octs have no duelist, and what did it cost the other side to win? Only the cargo loss. Now-a-days its even worse, equipment is insured, so the lame mofo that splashes needed equipment gets most of their money back.

[ELPIRATA]

There are other forms of stripping, sometimes there is no need to splash the commods, just have a way to 'hide' them off the market while the defense force is trying to fend off the attacks.

Park a tow in the base station and just pick everything (duelist, FF, some guns and even DTs) that could be used to effectively fight off the attackers.

Then, sometime after the fights has happened either drop them back or move them to another station where the defense force can't use them.

There's not much ND can do to avoid it happening, unless the station AI decides that some items are hidden because a fight is happening at the moment and those supplies are vital for fighting back. Otherwise, anyone can still come in, grab stuff and hide/hinder the defender's experience.

I side with Slim on that wars are fought not only with riffles and pistols. Wars end because many times the supply lines are broken, and I think haulers should have a way to help their military. But they can't be allowed in as civilians.

ELP

[Scorch]

The economy is pretty different stations don't really work in the same way, so wihle AI does play a role, its not really what you are asking here. Once we have someting internally that we are happy with we'll talk more.

[Lordopic]

Originally Posted by Scorch

The economy is pretty different stations don't really work in the same way, so wihle AI does play a role, its not really what you are asking here. Once we have someting internally that we are happy with we'll talk more.

OHHH your such a tease...

[dailatron]

Originally Posted by netburnrol

Now the fight is over because the octs have no duelist, and what did it cost the other side to win? Only the cargo loss. Now-a-days its even worse, equipment is insured, so the lame mofo that splashes needed equipment gets most of their money back.

POS !!!